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[quote=Lindsey_Mcfarren;2534315]I thought that Jesus was sent here to earth partly to set down an example of how to live your life, therefore making you a christian.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindsey_Mcfarren
When he was a child, why was he not baptized then? Why did it wait until he was an adult AND why was he immersed rather then sprinkled as so many churches are fond of doing now?
2 reasons:
1) His public Ministry didn't start until he was @ 30yrs old -
2) Jesus was circumcised on the 8th day of life - the OT requirement. Circumcision was to make you apart of Gods Family - His chosen family. Notice once again, it was God who did the choosing, not the infant. Yet the infant was apart of Gods family, because of Gods promise, not by anything the baby did.
Baptism is the NT replacement of circumcision.
Jesus said "Go and make disciples of all nations, baptising in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Ghost."
There was an argument amoung the Jewish Christians about circumcision custom for being identified as one of Gods chosen people. Galations 5
Do you think their arguments include practicing that on 8 day olds or just on "age of accountablity" and older ?
Pauls (by inspiration) answer was " 12As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves! " Galations 5:12
Today, Paul would probably say, if you "insist" that immersion is only the correct way, why not hold'em under till you see 3 bubbles? Maybe a quick double immersion for 15 seconds each, longer the better right? ..... you get the point. Stop focusing on the how but on the freedom you recieve is the point of Galations 5.
I wonder............ how many people who insisted on circumcision in pleasing God, actually emasculated themselves?
I thought that Jesus was sent here to earth partly to set down an example of how to live your life, therefore making you a christian.
2 reasons:
1) His public Ministry didn't start until he was @ 30yrs old -
2) Jesus was circumcised on the 8th day of life - the OT requirement. Circumcision was to make you apart of Gods Family - His chosen family. Notice once again, it was God who did the choosing, not the infant. Yet the infant was apart of Gods family, because of Gods promise, not by anything the baby did.
Baptism is the NT replacement of circumcision.
Jesus said "Go and make disciples of all nations, baptising in the name of the Father, Son, Holy Ghost."
There was an argument amoung the Jewish Christians about circumcision custom for being identified as one of Gods chosen people. Galations 5
Do you think their arguments include practicing that on 8 day olds or just on "age of accountablity" and older ?
Pauls (by inspiration) answer was " 12As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves! " Galations 5:12
Today, Paul would probably say, if you "insist" that immersion is only the correct way, why not hold'em under till you see 3 bubbles? Maybe a quick double immersion for 15 seconds each, longer the better right? ..... you get the point. Stop focusing on the how but on the freedom you recieve is the point of Galations 5.
I wonder............ how many people who insisted on circumcision in pleasing God, actually emasculated themselves?
Im sorry but you consider being baptized a public ministry? I thought it was about your own personal statement to god that you are going to follow him.
If baby jesus was circumcised then why not baptize him as a baby as well. Why not follow all the traditions rather then just one.
I think its clear that the bible does not support baptism of an infant. Its just that simple.
The example in the bible is of an adult making a concious choice, not of a baby who has no understanding of the entire process.
Im sorry but you consider being baptized a public ministry? I thought it was about your own personal statement to god that you are going to follow him.
Jesus' baptism wasn't for His benefit, thats what John the Baptist could not understand. John's baptism was for the sinner, John felt Jesus should baptise him! So Jesus ask "John's baptism, where did it come from? Was it from heaven or from men?"Matt 21:25 NIV
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindsey_Mcfarren
If baby jesus was circumcised then why not baptize him as a baby as well. Why not follow all the traditions rather then just one.
To fullfill the OT, Jesus needed to be circumcised. If I have the time line correct, you can't baptise what wasn't revealed by God 30 yrs later. If you have a problem with that time line, guess you'll need to ask Him when we (yes, I mean we) face our Lord in person.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lindsey_Mcfafarren
The example in the bible is of an adult making a concious choice, not of a baby who has no understanding of the entire process.
Can you tell me what baby understood circumcision? But yet, he was a part of Gods chosen family.
The divide between us is in the question "Repentance... is it from heaven or from man?"
Lets just agree we're both Christians and see you in the Lord's return.... Come soon, LORD!
Firstly I am not a christian, I am an atheist but I do have a pretty good knowledge of the bible.
I think you throw out alot of double talk to defend an indefensible position.
The reality is that to be a christian you are to follow the example that Jesus gave while living here on earth. If you are going to do that then you would have to believe in adult baptism by immersion. Its that simple.
Firstly I am not a christian, I am an atheist but I do have a pretty good knowledge of the bible.
I think you throw out alot of double talk to defend an indefensible position.
The reality is that to be a christian you are to follow the example that Jesus gave while living here on earth. If you are going to do that then you would have to believe in adult baptism by immersion. Its that simple.
Not really. To completely follow the example of Jesus on earth, you'd also have to:
Be circumcised.
Become an itinerant preacher.
Turn water into wine.
Walk on water.
Cure lepers.
Attend a synagogue.
Gather disciples.
Be crucified.
Be resurrected from the dead.
On the other hand, Jesus' commands as far as baptism are only as explicit as "Go and make disciples in all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost."
I copied this word for word from my seven year old daughter's catechism assignment.
"Baptism is a sacrament where we are cleaned of original sin and we become a member of the Catholic Church. The original sin is from when Adam and Eve were bad in the garden. It is the first of many sacraments. Me and my friends are excited."
The "me and my friends are excited" part is referring to their upcoming Communion they'll be making! LOL
In our church (Roman Catholic) Baptism is for the remission of both original sin and actual sin—only original sin in the case of infants and young children, since they are incapable of actual sin ~ and both original and actual sin in the case of adults or older people.
IMO, infant baptism is more for the parents and relatives than for the child. The child is unaware of what's happening and is unable to make a conscious decision one way or the other.
LOL, it almost seems that way doesn't it. My kids are getting ready to make their communion and have been getting a kick out of looking at their baptism photos when they were a baby.
My faith does believe though that the baptism of an infant is erasing, so to speak, the "original sin" which we believe we are all born with. Infants and children are incapable of commiting actual sins until they are older.
I think this is an individual thing. It is up to the parent's discretion. Parents should seek the Lord in prayer and be lead by the Spirit as to what to do concerning baptism.
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men,because all sinned—
Romans 5:15
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man
Romans 5:16
Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.
Ezekiel 18:20 The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against him.
John 3:6 Fleshgivesbirth to flesh, but the Spiritgivesbirth to spirit. [Jesus]
- Sinful human beings gives birth to sinful human beings-
----------------- BUT -------------------------------
The Spirit gives birth to spirit.
IMO, Babies have a soul. We recieve a soul at conception. Babies die.
If babies are incapable of sinning, then why do babies die? When has the last time you taught a baby to throw a temper tantrum?
God is serious about sin(s).
God is serious about providing a solution for us.
If you don't agree, that's ok. Please show me in scriptures at what age a person recieves his/her soul? Then that age and younger shouldn't die.
Last edited by twin.spin; 01-17-2008 at 10:40 AM..
Reason: typing error
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