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yes, the Law of God has been around since way before the Levitical Law... And that was what Paul was talking about-the Law of God, the 10 commandments... Hence why Paul said "except the law had said thou shalt not covet"... He was convinced of sin by God's law. However, you hit the nail on the head finally with that last part; 'sin is being disobedient to God'. Yay, there is hope for you after all Mike!
That is why the wrath of God will come upon the children of disobedience, and why if we love God we will obey His Commandments
And He gives us the Holy Spirit to empower us to obey Him, so it is possible to obey God.... 'I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength'.
TC
I hit the nail on the head from the beginning. Keep your snide remarks to yourself and grow up.
Sooner or later a fundamentalist thread winds up talking and frequently obsessing about "sin." It is never EVER about their own sin, it's always about someone else's refusal to walk their specifically defined path.
In other words it is the modern Pharisee at work.
Now in his defense the OP began with a different concept, but ultimately his view and understanding of God is narrow and limited. He does try to focus in on a "relationship" with Christ. First, the word relationship is an English word introduced into spiritual discussions. It is not a word found anywhere in the Bible, but rather a conclusion reached by some and popularized by Bill Bryce's Campus Crusade and the Four Spiritual Laws meant to bring a person to a decision about Jesus.
There are quite a few fundamentalists who post based on the Bible who never mention their personal relationship. Jesus who stated "I will come into him and sup with him," didn't refer to that as a personal relationship. Most of His parables where God can be seen seem to point to a Master-servant relationship, slightly different than "personal."
I'm not discounting "personal," just questioning the "biblical" idea that it alludes to. My own life experience is quite personal from the standpoint of whenever I have tried to flee God I felt the Hound of Heaven chasing me down. And that's how I know God cares for me. He won't leave me alone even when I ask Him to do so. But it is much more that Master-servant relationship. It isn't chummy personal. He has let me know exactly where I stand with Him and why I have no right to lift myself above any other sinner.
So I found Jesus in a Master- servant relationship--and once I understood that, He wouldn't let me escape.
Trying to make a one-size fits all "relationship" with Jesus is an exercise in frustration. God doesn't appear to everyone in a burning bush nor in a Road to Damascus Revelation.
It's not about how we find God nor about how we relate to Jesus, it's about how we exhibit the best Christ gave us to all those around us. It's how we treat those people as Jesus treats us--- as forgiven before we ask for it, as acceptable when we shouldn't be, and as instruments to to do what He did--show the same grace and mercy to others that He showed to us.
Then there are those who do not show it despite their supposed biblical knowledge. One can only fail to show it because of not experiencing it. If, in the end, your belief in God doesn't change how you relate to people, then there is no relationship of any kind with God. If it is only about altering beliefs and has nothing to do with altering life, then how is that different from any "pagan."
Understood in this fashion, those words in Matthew about "Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty and did not provide for you. Or when were you sick or in prison and we did not visit you?"
They were people who knew the Bible, but did not share grace and mercy to those who were undeserving.
Sorry, but you completely missed it from the beginning Mike... And you are even now refusing to acknowledge it. Too proud perhaps...?
TC
You were shown proof that sin is defined as missing the mark in posts #44 and 49. Let me give you some advice. When you resort to comments like the ones you make, you not only show yourself to be not much of a Christian, but you show yourself to be not even much of a man. Also, a man would admit when he's wrong. And you owe Vizeo an apology for your remarks to him. With that said, I will waste no more time on your childishness. And I won't take DRob's thread off topic.
The Mosaic Law has nothing to do with the definition of sin. The definition of sin does not change. Sin is always missing the mark, falling short of the glory of God, being disobedient to God's commands, rebelliousness.
And, most of all, pride. Biblical pride makes gay pride absolutely attractive.
You were shown proof that sin is defined as missing the mark in posts #44 and 49. Let me give you some advice. When you resort to comments like the ones you make, you not only show yourself to be not much of a Christian, but you show yourself to be not even much of a man. Also, a man would admit when he's wrong. And you owe Vizeo an apology for your remarks to him. With that said, I will waste no more time on your childishness. And I won't take DRob's thread off topic.
I do not owe him an apology... He was mistaken in his remarks and likewise so are you. Mike, the fact is you lack knowledge, and you are trying to hide that by your comments. You and Vizio are steering people wrong with bad doctrine. I will refute everything you say according to Scripture, when you do such things (for the benefit of those who may be looking for truth on this forum). You obviously do not like getting called out on your doctrines, and resort to name calling and vitriol, but that will not change the truth. Sin is far more than 'missing the mark'. That is just the lame evangelical excuse for living like the world. Sin causes separation from God. And that is ultimately death:
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Are you free from sin? Has the Son of Man set you free?
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
Joh 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
Joh 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Well, if you understand the nature of sin and its wages is death, have you been set free or not?
Children learn trough obedience . . . but NOT for obedience sake! It is the learning . . . in this case agape love for all concerned . . . that is the goal . . . NOT the obedience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555
God demands strict obedience to His perfect standard of righteousness. Since fallen man cannot be perfectly obedient and cannot obtain a righteousness which meets God's perfect standard, God imputes or credits the perfect righteousness of Christ to those who believe on Him. Sin ultimately is against God. Any disobedience to God's commands is sin. And sin can bring divine discipline in time to the believer (Heb. 12:5-11).
Sad, just very, very sad!Sin is missing the mark and the mark is agape love . . . NOT obedience to a tyrant God. God wants love NOT mindless obedience . . . OR ELSE! What kind of person could love a mafia GodFather God like that????.
Sad, just very, very sad!Sin is missing the mark and the mark is agape love . . . NOT obedience to a tyrant God. God wants love NOT mindless obedience . . . OR ELSE! What kind of person could love a mafia GodFather God like that????.
No, sin is missing the mark of God's perfect righteousness. God is absolute perfect righteousness and as such, all sin is an abomination to Him. By abomination is meant that sin is abhorrent to Him. God does indeed want us to love Him. But love involves obedience. And disobeying God is a sin. You've already been shown the Scripture.
yes, the Law of God has been around since way before the Levitical Law... And that was what Paul was talking about-the Law of God, the 10 commandments... Hence why Paul said "except the law had said thou shalt not covet"... He was convinced of sin by God's law. However, you hit the nail on the head finally with that last part; 'sin is being disobedient to God'. Yay, there is hope for you after all Mike!
That is why the wrath of God will come upon the children of disobedience, and why if we love God we will obey His Commandments
And He gives us the Holy Spirit to empower us to obey Him, so it is possible to obey God.... 'I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength'.
TC
I think Mike is unhappy with you because you are outBibleing him. And that does tend to get his dander up.
"You've been told!" Or like the above post, "You've been shown the Scripture!"
I think Mike is unhappy with you because you are outBibleing him. And that does tend to get his dander up.
"You've been told!" Or like the above post, "You've been shown the Scripture!"
There does seem to be that unspoken competition amongst the churched. LIke how many verses can one string together and attempt to have it sound like a real conversation.
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