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Old 01-18-2008, 12:22 PM
 
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It is often thought that Paul, being the apostle to the gentiles, taught a brand of Christianity that focused on merely confessing that Jesus is the Messiah, and that obedience to the law was not necessary. I believe that Paul's writings have been grossly misinterpreted, and have led many to believe that everything old testament has been done away.

Even note what the the Apostle Peter says about Paul's writings:

2 Peter 3: 15-16
"Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."

Powerful words, yet very accurate.

I believe that God does not contradict himself. You can't take one scripture that fits nicely with what you'd like to believe and completely ignore another passage which seemingly contradicts it. You have to be able to explain all scripture, not dismissing anything if you truly intend on following the ways of God.

So for those who believe that its not necessary to keep the "Old Testament" festivals, because they are no longer enforced under the new covenant, I ask this: Why is Paul commanding the gentile Church at Corinth many years after the death of Christ to keep the Festival of Passover?

1 Corinthians 5: 7-8
"For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth."
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Old 01-18-2008, 02:05 PM
 
7,780 posts, read 13,509,792 times
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Quite interesting.

I read something about this on another forum this week.

I'll have to say that I thought the answer was that we do, in fact, celebrate Passover any time we take Communion(The Lord's Supper).

It was during Passover that Christ Himself had this meal in the Upper Room.

Should we celebrate Passover like Christ? Or is there another standard?

I'm asking honestly, this is a new line of thinking for me.
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Old 01-18-2008, 02:27 PM
 
479 posts, read 1,036,329 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majestic33 View Post
It is often thought that Paul, being the apostle to the gentiles, taught a brand of Christianity that focused on merely confessing that Jesus is the Messiah, and that obedience to the law was not necessary. I believe that Paul's writings have been grossly misinterpreted, and have led many to believe that everything old testament has been done away.

Even note what the the Apostle Peter says about Paul's writings:

2 Peter 3: 15-16
"Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."

Powerful words, yet very accurate.

I believe that God does not contradict himself. You can't take one scripture that fits nicely with what you'd like to believe and completely ignore another passage which seemingly contradicts it. You have to be able to explain all scripture, not dismissing anything if you truly intend on following the ways of God.

So for those who believe that its not necessary to keep the "Old Testament" festivals, because they are no longer enforced under the new covenant, I ask this: Why is Paul commanding the gentile Church at Corinth many years after the death of Christ to keep the Festival of Passover?

1 Corinthians 5: 7-8
"For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth."
1 Timothy 1:8-12
But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust. And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;


The law wasn't made for the righteous, it was made for the unrighteous. Men who submit their wills to God don't need laws to control themselves, unrighteous men who submit to rules, customs, and regulations of man made ordinances do.
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Old 01-18-2008, 02:38 PM
 
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Default Christ our example

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
Quite interesting.

I read something about this on another forum this week.

I'll have to say that I thought the answer was that we do, in fact, celebrate Passover any time we take Communion(The Lord's Supper).

It was during Passover that Christ Himself had this meal in the Upper Room.

Should we celebrate Passover like Christ? Or is there another standard?

I'm asking honestly, this is a new line of thinking for me.
Love the open mind. The idea of a weekly communion does not come from your bible but was instituted by the Roman Catholic Church hundreds of years after Christ's death.

We need to ask ourselves who was Jesus, the person. He was an Israelite from the tribe of Judah. The Apostles were also Jews.

The jews had been celebrating the Passover as a command from God yearly (a memorial) since its inception coming out of Egypt. The passover lamb that was slain each year at this memorial was picturing the death of the true passover lamb to come (Christ). When Christ said "as often as you do this do it in remembrance of me" he was speaking of the passover festival.

That's why he was slain on the passover and that's why Paul calls him our Passover Lamb. The Festival was commanded by God to be kept (yearly) forever. Christ (our example) obeyed his Father, we should as well.
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Old 01-18-2008, 02:38 PM
 
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Here is the whole chapter:
1 Cor 5: 1 ¶ It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife.
2 And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7 ¶ Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 ¶ I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
IMO, the verses 7-8 are not talking about a separate topic within the rest of the chapter. The rest of the chapter talks about maintaining the purity of the church. Now I haven't studied these verses in this context before, but my take on those verses would be that sometimes purging or sacrificing of ourselves is necessary.. after all, Christ was sacrificed for us, just as the passover lamb was a sacrifice to save the oldest son of the family while in Egypt, so we need to keep this "passover" of sacrifice and purity to preserve the church.

I agree with Alpha's thoughts tho, that the communion service commemorates Christ's death and sacrifice for us in place of the passover feast.

I'd like to hear more thoughts on this!

Last edited by cg81; 01-18-2008 at 02:46 PM.. Reason: add sentence
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Old 01-18-2008, 02:49 PM
 
15 posts, read 43,608 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simpleton View Post
1 Timothy 1:8-12
But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust. And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;


The law wasn't made for the righteous, it was made for the unrighteous. Men who submit their wills to God don't need laws to control themselves, unrighteous men who submit to rules, customs, and regulations of man made ordinances do.

You really did not answer the question. Who decides who is righteous?

Christ very plainly tells us in Matthew 19:17 ...if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

There it is plain and simple from the lips you our savior. Keep the commandments.
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Old 01-18-2008, 03:04 PM
 
479 posts, read 1,036,329 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majestic33 View Post
You really did not answer the question. Who decides who is righteous?

Christ very plainly tells us in Matthew 19:17 ...if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.

There it is plain and simple from the lips you our savior. Keep the commandments.
Romans 3:10-31
as it is written, THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS,THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE.
THEIR THROAT IS AN OPEN GRAVE,
WITH THEIR TONGUES THEY KEEP DECEIVING,"
THE POISON OF ASPS IS UNDER THEIR LIPS";
WHOSE MOUTH IS FULL OF CURSING AND BITTERNESS"; THEIR FEET ARE SWIFT TO SHED BLOOD, DESTRUCTION AND MISERY ARE IN THEIR PATHS,
AND THE PATH OF PEACE THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN." THERE IS NO FEAR OF GOD BEFORE THEIR EYES.


Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;
because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.


Justification by Faith

But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,

even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;
whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed;
for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
Where then is boasting? It is excluded By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.
Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also,
since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one. Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.


Edit: Hope that answers your question.

Last edited by simpleton; 01-18-2008 at 03:12 PM.. Reason: Edit: Clarification
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Old 01-18-2008, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 6,084,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majestic33 View Post
Love the open mind. The idea of a weekly communion does not come from your bible but was instituted by the Roman Catholic Church hundreds of years after Christ's death.

We need to ask ourselves who was Jesus, the person. He was an Israelite from the tribe of Judah. The Apostles were also Jews.

The jews had been celebrating the Passover as a command from God yearly (a memorial) since its inception coming out of Egypt. The passover lamb that was slain each year at this memorial was picturing the death of the true passover lamb to come (Christ). When Christ said "as often as you do this do it in remembrance of me" he was speaking of the passover festival.

That's why he was slain on the passover and that's why Paul calls him our Passover Lamb. The Festival was commanded by God to be kept (yearly) forever. Christ (our example) obeyed his Father, we should as well.

We Catholics can't take the credit. /

"The blessing-cup, which we bless, is it not a sharing in the blood of Christ; and the loaf of bread we break, is it not a sharing in the body of Christ?"

1 Cor 10:15,16
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Old 01-18-2008, 03:12 PM
Status: "The nicest curve on a woman's body is her smile" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Florida/Tennessee
2,426 posts, read 4,320,968 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
We Catholics can't take the credit. /

"The blessing-cup, which we bless, is it not a sharing in the blood of Christ; and the loaf of bread we break, is it not a sharing in the body of Christ?"

1 Cor 10:15,16
Well I'm giving the Roman Catholic Church partial credit! after all... that's a nice painting!
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Old 01-18-2008, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Maryland
3,540 posts, read 6,084,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_n_Tenn View Post
Well I'm giving the Roman Catholic Church partial credit! after all... that's a nice painting!

ROFL
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