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I am impressed by everyone on this forum in regards to wanting to continue to learn the scriptures. Also, some of you must be studying the greek words for certain things. I find this admirable and encourage you men and women out there to continue to teach some of us that may not know the greek words from the Bible. Where are you all learning these greek words from? Thank you and God Bless!
I am impressed by everyone on this forum in regards to wanting to continue to learn the scriptures. Also, some of you must be studying the greek words for certain things. I find this admirable and encourage you men and women out there to continue to teach some of us that may not know the greek words from the Bible. Where are you all learning these greek words from? Thank you and God Bless!
My friend, for a home study resource page, you might find the following of assistance.
I am impressed by everyone on this forum in regards to wanting to continue to learn the scriptures. Also, some of you must be studying the greek words for certain things. I find this admirable and encourage you men and women out there to continue to teach some of us that may not know the greek words from the Bible. Where are you all learning these greek words from? Thank you and God Bless!
Well, Strong's concordance is for the strong, Young's concordance is for the young and Crude's concordance is for the crude
Seriously though, there are a lot of reputable sources for looking up biblical Hebrew and Greek terms. I've spent most of my last thirty years in the Strong's concordance, although it was (admittedly) written in conjunction with the King James Version, so at the end of the 'real' definitions it ALWAYS includes the English word that the KJV translators used (no matter how far off it is!). To be fair, I think the KJV got most things very right, and a few things very wrong.
Bottom line is, you have to keep your brain engaged and a spiritual ear open. I always try to look objectively at the original words and stay away from man's 'commentaries'. To me "commentaries" = "Yes, it says this - but let ME tell you what it really means". Don't get me wrong - I appreciate others insights and comments BUT when they just seem to tow the party line and it doesn't seem to make any sense - a red flag goes up.
I'll give some examples sometime at how looking beyond the English translations can be very enlightening.
Also, it's good to keep this in mind: EVERY translator brings some bias into the picture no matter how hard they try not too, 'tis a fact. When going from one language to another there are always certain guesses or assumptions which have to be made about the original language/culture/context etc. Anyone who tells you differently is just trying to sell their point of view!
Notice the verse from the Old Testament that Paul was quoting in Phil. 2 and we will understand through context whether this universal “bowing and confessing” will be unto salvation or just God making them cry “Uncle” before He casts them to Hell.
Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
Isa 45:23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
In particular, I want to focus on three points:
(1) God states the purpose of this bowing and confessing as “Look unto me and be saved”.
(2) This includes “all the ends of the earth”.
(3) God has sworn by Himself that this will happen. In other words, He has Sovereignly declared that this will happen and He will cause it to happen. Such strong language indicates that no man or demon will be able to prevent His will in this from coming to pass.
Praise God for it.
John
Excellent! The bowing and confession is most assuredly linked with salvation. That salvation is extended to the farthest reaches of the earth, and is backed by the One who swears by Himself. There is exactly one signature on the decree, only One, the Living Life who has sworn by Himself.
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The knowledge of the Lord shall cover the earth as the waters cover the sea.
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And no man shall say know the Lord, for all shall know Me from the least to the greatest.
"The Lord will be terrible unto them; for He will famish all the gods of the earth, and men shall worship Him, every one from his place and all the isles of the heathen.....Indeed, My decision is to gather nations, to assemble kingdoms, to pour out all My burning anger; for all the earth will be devoured by the fire of My zeal. For then I will give to the peoples purified lips, that all of them may call upon the Name of the Lord, to serve Him with one consent, shoulder to shoulder."
1. All the isles of the "heathen" shall worship Him.
2. All men shall worship Him "from his place."
3. All nations shall be gathered, all kingdoms gathered to the devouring fire of the Lord. For what purpose?
4. I will give all heathen, all men, all nations purified lips. To what end?
5. That all of them may call upon the Lord.
6. And the calling upon the Name of the Lord finalizes in all of them serving the Lord "with one consent."
I am impressed by everyone on this forum in regards to wanting to continue to learn the scriptures. Also, some of you must be studying the greek words for certain things. I find this admirable and encourage you men and women out there to continue to teach some of us that may not know the greek words from the Bible. Where are you all learning these greek words from? Thank you and God Bless!
Lol - or you can just click on Birdy's links above.
- byron
Also, it's good to keep this in mind: EVERY translator brings some bias into the picture no matter how hard they try not too, 'tis a fact. When going from one language to another there are always certain guesses or assumptions which have to be made about the original language/culture/context etc. Anyone who tells you differently is just trying to sell their point of view!
Of course, none of it makes sense unless Jesus opens our minds to understand the scriptures - as He did the original disciple's
Indeed! There are Koine words that cannot be translated into English because there are no equivalents. And, even if every translation got it completely correct, we still would not grasp the depths and heights of something which requires the Son of God to interpret. It is an interesting fact that the disciples who walked in the flesh with the Christ for 3 1/2 years, understood little of what He declared, and "many of His disciples walked no more with Him" because of words that eclipsed their understanding. How needy we all are....without Him we can do nothing!
"It is He that propels us through rough and turbulent waters of this present life to the glassy, still and shimmering calm expanse of His glory that penetrates far beyond the shadowy types that we presently meander among. Most assuredly, it is of universal significance that He has demonstrated such an overly kind gesture toward us, even in this inceptive life, from which we are to abundantly drink . It is in the here and now, that we presently find our consuming quest. It is here and now that His life makes a move to envelop us and begins to reveal to us His grandness that causes the head to ache with joy and the heart palpitate with explosive excitement! What we have shared and will continue to share in Christ Jesus lays all else to waste." -Lawrence Wise-
Think not that I am come to destroy the law. or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
What does fulfil mean? Does that mean enforce, re-establish, confirm? No.
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For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven, but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
The red bit is the key. The Pharisees observed the law of Moses yet continuing to follow the law as a way, you needed to be more righteous/diligent than they were. So by observance of the laws, it was possible but implausible. The law of Jesus was summarized into two Love based commandments, and this was not to say the law was OK, it was to say that through unconditional love, you would be able to follow the laws
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Therefore, the law is still in affect. The law shows us when we have sinned. Anyways, what is so hard about following those commandments. Why is this even a issue. We can sin in tons of other ways than just the 10 commandments.
If you are a Jew possibly. However, that age has passed and those who want to live according to the Levitical laws, the Levite priests are gone, sacrifice has gone, the temple has gone so IMO, conscious observance of laws does not make one righteous. If the Law is what shows you your sin, then you have missed out on the conviction of conscience and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. If you want to observe the laws you must observe all 630 odd and if you fail in one you fail in all. The 10 are written on our hearts.
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What is important is that we recognize sin and ask for forgiveness. Try not to keep repeating the same mistakes. And by the way, I don't think we have to go to confessional to be forgiven of our sins. Once that veil ripped we were allowed a direct relationship with our Lord and Savior, therefore, we can ask for forgiveness by our self not through a priest. Can anyone tell me their opinion on this since I know that it is not the main topic here? Just interested in others opinion. Thank you all and God Bless!
I agree. We recognize sin not because of the law. Knowing Love for you should be the motive not to sin.
In essence, making the flesh conform, does not make you more spiritual. The sin you do gives you the perception of separation from God but He is always ready to forgive and has done so already, it is your guilt that causes the separation. Confess, accept the forgiveness and move on. You cannot undo your sin. The more you focus on the Father of Love, the less you will fall into the lusts of the flesh.
God is described as agape love. He is said to be agape love. What is the definition of "agape"?
agape=benevolent love, charity
"So let me ask you then, what is the purpose of “eternal” punishment? If God's punishment never ends, then what purpose does it hold for the offender? What betterment to the sinner? The answer is none... Certainly God would not have the best interest of the sinner at heart if His punishments continued without end. And isn't this what love is—being concerned for the welfare of another? The very essence of love is the idea that it is purely unselfish—it thinks not of itself (1 Cor. 13:8) ...No one would deny that God loves all men. But if the Scripture is true when it says that God is love, then God must love all men, not just in this short lifespan He gives us, but also throughout the age of time and beyond! Didn't Jesus Himself tell us to love our enemies? Didn't Paul teach us that if our enemies hunger and thirst, we should give them food and drink? Does this only apply to a man's short lifespan on the earth? None of us doubt that those thrown into the lake of fire are enemies of the Cross. But does not God love even them? And if this is true, how will He manifest His love to them while in the lake of fire? Or will He stop loving them and “eternally” forsake them?..
God is described as agape love. He is said to be agape love. What is the definition of "agape"?
agape=benevolent love, charity
"So let me ask you then, what is the purpose of “eternal” punishment? If God's punishment never ends, then what purpose does it hold for the offender? What betterment to the sinner? The answer is none... Certainly God would not have the best interest of the sinner at heart if His punishments continued without end. And isn't this what love is—being concerned for the welfare of another? The very essence of love is the idea that it is purely unselfish—it thinks not of itself (1 Cor. 13:8) ...No one would deny that God loves all men. But if the Scripture is true when it says that God is love, then God must love all men, not just in this short lifespan He gives us, but also throughout the age of time and beyond! Didn't Jesus Himself tell us to love our enemies? Didn't Paul teach us that if our enemies hunger and thirst, we should give them food and drink? Does this only apply to a man's short lifespan on the earth? None of us doubt that those thrown into the lake of fire are enemies of the Cross. But does not God love even them? And if this is true, how will He manifest His love to them while in the lake of fire? Or will He stop loving them and “eternally” forsake them?..
I have been following you and SeekerSa, as you both defend your beliefs.
I respect you both. Your knowledge, and passion is impressive.
My belief in our eternal destiny is not too far off from you guys, but I'd like to ask a ( long ) question. I have hestitated doing this, because I don't want to be drawn into a long scripture discussion.
Frankly, knowlegable and mature Christians of good will can interpret scripture very differently. There are some beliefs out there that seem patently heretical. But you guys have intrigued me.
I agree the beauty of heaven is available to all sinners, even after living a wretched life. But I do believe it is possible for someone to be so reprobate, so opposed to love and grace, that their hatred for God prevents them from accepting any salvation.
Take for example Ken Eckerty's analogy of his fatherhood, and his rebellious daughter. What if that daughter forever rejected her father's love. Sure, the father would never stop loving his daughter, but the daughter will never experience the joy of that relationship.
What if the prodigal son's hatred for his father was so strong, he would rather eat with swine.
Do you believe it is possible for someone to reject Christ eternally.
It would seem to me, that although God will always love us and pursue us, it is possible for us to reject Him. Eternally.
Please, to avoid another 100+ threads, I'd really like to hear your response in your own words. That's really what I'm asking for hear. I've read the scripture.
Thanks
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