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You are angry at yourself because you cannot reconcile those verses without creating a fictional story (which I predicted would be the case). I admit to having an unfair advantage---I was a fundamentalist for many, many years. I looked at all the creative scripture protection stories and threw them out against doubters all the time. But a college Bible professor did to me what I am now doing to you---illustrated that none of the stories I told to reconcile scripture were themselves scripture--and he asked me, "Why can't scripture just say what it says?"
THAT was when God dealt with me---right then. You need the Bible perfect and unblemished or your faith dissipates. I see all those mistakes and outright contradictions and it doesn't phase my faith. Because deep. Genuine faith cannot exist where it must depend on an object, such as the Bible. My faith is in the Unseen God--I wasn't one of those seventy elders of Israel who saw God. I don't have a perfect book. Instead I look for God in everyone. And oft times I'm pleased to see Him.
This is true. ^^^^
If you want to shipwreck someone's faith, indoctrinate them with the idea that they MUST have faith that the bible is the infallible, inerrant word of God, and faith that the stories recorded within (including all the OT) are factual history, in order to have faith in God. "No infallible Bible = no God."
Then, let them study the bible, the history of the bible canon, science, and ancient history in depth and without the biased teaching of others similarly indoctrinated. If you've done your job of indoctrinating them with that equivalency (no infallible Bible = no God), and if they aren't able to live with cognitive dissonance, they'll inevitably come to the conclusion that there is no God because there is no infallible bible. And if you've done your job exceptionally well, they'll never bother exploring the possibility of seeking God anywhere but in an infallible book, which they will never find.
If you want to shipwreck someone's faith, indoctrinate them with the idea that they MUST have faith that the bible is the infallible, inerrant word of God, and faith that the stories recorded within (including all the OT) are factual history, in order to have faith in God. "No infallible Bible = no God."
Then, let them study the bible, the history of the bible canon, science, and ancient history in depth and without the biased teaching of others similarly indoctrinated. If you've done your job of indoctrinating them with that equivalency (no infallible Bible = no God), and if they aren't able to live with cognitive dissonance, they'll inevitably come to the conclusion that there is no God because there is no infallible bible. And if you've done your job exceptionally well, they'll never bother exploring the possibility of seeking God anywhere but in an infallible book, which they will never find.
Well said, Pleroo! The infallibility doctrine is self-defeating for any intelligent, thinking person. It places belief in God upon a foundation that is less stable than quicksand. Rep IOU!
Since it has struck a nerve and fundamentalists are beginning to be faced with the inaccuracy of their biblical understanding it deserves to be posted again.
According to the Bible--no man has seen God and lived.
According to the Bible--Moses, Aaron, Nadam, Abihu and seventy elders DID see God and lived. It was particularly pertinent that the writer of Exodus (whom fundamentalists believe was Moses himself) stated they ate and drank--hinting that it was in the very presence of the God they SAW.
Quote:
Moses and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and the seventy elders of Israel went up and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of lapis lazuli, as bright blue as the sky. But God did not raise his hand against these leaders of the Israelites; they saw God, and they ate and drank.
Exodus 24:9-11
But then in the NT it states:
Quote:
No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us.
I John 4:12
Is the "Word of God" wrong or the author of Exodus was wrong or the author of the letters of John was wrong?
And this is the problem of fundamentalism. You cannot read scripture independently and make it "fit" unless you make up a creative writing story about why both are equally correct, and worship your explanation as scripture.
And that's why anyone viewing the Bible as "literal," is simply foolish beyond words to explain.
It apparently is so disturbing at least one fundamentalist has abandoned the thread.
Since it has struck a nerve and fundamentalists are beginning to be faced with the inaccuracy of their biblical understanding it deserves to be posted again.
According to the Bible--no man has seen God and lived.
According to the Bible--Moses, Aaron, Nadam, Abihu and seventy elders DID see God and lived. It was particularly pertinent that the writer of Exodus (whom fundamentalists believe was Moses himself) stated they ate and drank--hinting that it was in the very presence of the God they SAW.
Exodus 24:9-11
But then in the NT it states:
I John 4:12
Is the "Word of God" wrong or the author of Exodus was wrong or the author of the letters of John was wrong?
And this is the problem of fundamentalism. You cannot read scripture independently and make it "fit" unless you make up a creative writing story about why both are equally correct, and worship your explanation as scripture.
And that's why anyone viewing the Bible as "literal," is simply foolish beyond words to explain.
Great stuff
Leaves me thinking they are willfully denying and ignoring the obvious in favor over their man made beliefs.
Since it has struck a nerve and fundamentalists are beginning to be faced with the inaccuracy of their biblical understanding it deserves to be posted again.
According to the Bible--no man has seen God and lived.
According to the Bible--Moses, Aaron, Nadam, Abihu and seventy elders DID see God and lived. It was particularly pertinent that the writer of Exodus (whom fundamentalists believe was Moses himself) stated they ate and drank--hinting that it was in the very presence of the God they SAW.
Exodus 24:9-11
But then in the NT it states:
I John 4:12
Is the "Word of God" wrong or the author of Exodus was wrong or the author of the letters of John was wrong?
And this is the problem of fundamentalism. You cannot read scripture independently and make it "fit" unless you make up a creative writing story about why both are equally correct, and worship your explanation as scripture.
And that's why anyone viewing the Bible as "literal," is simply foolish beyond words to explain.
It apparently is so disturbing at least one fundamentalist has abandoned the thread.
Oh please, saddle your boasting. This isn't a smoking gun contradiction. "Seen God" can mean many things and context is very important. John could be talking about seeing God from a spiritual full perspective while Moses saw a physical manifestation of God.
If you are an enemy of the Bible than you are an enemy of God.
Since it has struck a nerve and fundamentalists are beginning to be faced with the inaccuracy of their biblical understanding it deserves to be posted again.
...
And that's why anyone viewing the Bible as "literal," is simply foolish beyond words to explain.
It apparently is so disturbing at least one fundamentalist has abandoned the thread.
This is why I am not playing the games.
I give a clear reason as to why I am not playing Scripture tag - it is a waste of time - NOT because the Bible is inaccurate.
Yet - you and others lie and misrepresent what I say. So when the boundaries of truth are no longer important - you are on your own.
Just wanted to clear that up - not that it makes any difference to you.
Well said, Pleroo! The infallibility doctrine is self-defeating for any intelligent, thinking person. It places belief in God upon a foundation that is less stable than quicksand. Rep IOU!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Oh please, saddle your boasting. This isn't a smoking gun contradiction. "Seen God" can mean many things and context is very important. John could be talking about seeing God from a spiritual full perspective while Moses saw a physical manifestation of God.
If you are an enemy of the Bible then you are an enemy of God.
This is the deviousness of this doctrine of demons about the Bible. You SHOULD be saying that "If you are an enemy of the Christ then you are an enemy of God." That is what a Christian should believe. But no, you have exalted the Bible . . . NOT the Christ . . . and thoroughly corrupted His Gospel.
If you are an enemy of the Bible than you are an enemy of God.
Chapter, and verse? Or, is this just your perception?
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