Is Jesus God or Son of God ? (women, sinners, translation)

[Alpha8207]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by Alpha8207 Then you should read some books about Judaism.

Think the Torah qualifies for a 'book about Judaism'? Every reference I can find in the Torah calls God 'He'.

Originally Posted by Tricky D

There is a reason why Jews and Muslims do not portray God, but since Christians have decided that Jesus literally is God they've also decided that they aren't Jews anymore.
So not being Jewish anymore gave Christians the impression that the laws of the OT do not apply to them.
The thing is that Jesus still is of the Jewish faith and the fact that some of his followers (the Christians) moved away from Judaism is irrelevant.

Christians just believe the Bible, Tricky D. You make some pretty incredible statements from your opinions and they are terrible misrepresentations. I hope it's from lack of understanding rather than willful misrepresentation.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by Alpha8207

Think the Torah qualifies for a 'book about Judaism'? Every reference I can find in the Torah calls God 'He'.

Judaism is about how the Jews apply teachings of the Torah in daily life. Just reading the OT in the Bible tells you nothing about Judaism, only about how Christians interpret the OT.
To really understand Judaism you have to talk to a Jew.

Christians just believe the Bible, Tricky D. You make some pretty incredible statements from your opinions and they are terrible misrepresentations. I hope it's from lack of understanding rather than willful misrepresentation.

Your answer is already evidence that I understand Christianity better than you understand Judaism or the Islam.

[Alpha8207]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by Alpha8207Judaism is about how the Jews apply teachings of the Torah in daily life. Just reading the OT in the Bible tells you nothing about Judaism, only about how Christians interpret the OT.
To really understand Judaism you have to talk to a Jew.

Good idea!

http://www.city-data.com/forum/relig...ml#post4009501

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Your answer is already evidence that I understand Christianity better than you understand Judaism or the Islam.

Keep telling yourself that, TD. It's good for your self-confidence.

[Betsey Lane]

Originally Posted by SeekerSA

Well sadly, belief in the trinity is not a requirement. Try taking on the challenge, yours is a cop-out. Do you know the history of the trinity teaching, how or why it evolved? The NT church did not teach/believe it. The "and these three are one" in 1 John 5:7-8 are altered texts, do not believe me look at BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 50 versions and 35 languages., use the NKJV and read the footnotes.

"Believe on me (my teaching) and on Him (the Father) that sent me", seems in a nutshell what Jesus taught.

BTW Jesus and Christ are not the same words neither can they be used interchangeably.

In fact, corporately then individually, we are the Christ. Think about it.

Blessings

Preach the Word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all long-suffering and teaching.
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they willl heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. (2 Timothy Chapter 4 versus 2-5)
To God be the Glory!

[World Citizen]

Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA

There are MANY verses that I believe prove that Jesus is God and Jesus is Christ and can used interchangeably.

There are actually 187 verses that call Jesus, Jesus Christ.

The two names have different meanings... but the same Person.

and, He is God... the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. The Word that became flesh and dwelt among us.

[JSCH]

If Jesus were God, then he would have said that he was God rather than claiming to be the Son of God. If he is God then he is not the Son of God, which means either the Bible is inaccurate or Jesus is a liar for you cannot be God and the Son of God at the same time. Furthermore, Jesus consistently said he was the Son of God and even mentions the real God as Father. Jesus even told others not to pray to him, but to pray to his Father. Jesus himself on several occasions prayed to his Father. Why would Jesus tell others to pray to the Father and not him if he was not God? Why would Jesus pray to his Father if is God? It is simple. Jesus is not God. I know that Jesus does indeed state that he and the Father are one. However, when we take our vows to our spouse, we then claim to be one. Does this mean that we are one? I believe that what Jesus was referring to is he and the Father are one in spirit, but not physically one, which is like a marriage. We are one with our spouse, but we are not physically one. I do believe that Jesus is the Son of God as he has claimed to be and that the Father has given him power over the Earth as it is mentioned in the Bible. This is why I feel that Jesus says when you come to me that you come to my Father. It is because God has given him that power. This is similar to a spouse. When you come to my spouse, it is as if you are coming to me for she helps me within the house. It is also similar to professionals. Try walking into a retail establishment and asking for the manager. Often, you will get an assistant manager and not the store manager. You might ask for the store manager, but a good assistant will try to help you out and may even tell you that he can do anything that his boss can do for you. In other words, if you go to the assistant manager, it is as if you are going to the manager for they will both (assuming you get a good assistant) provide you with the same thing for they think alike. This is similar to Jesus and God. When you go to Jesus, it is as if you are going to God for they will both provide you with the same thing and nothing more or less, because they both think and act alike. There are passages that some can think provides evidence that Jesus is God and they happen to be very good points, but could actually go either way. However, when Jesus prays to God, claims that he is the Son of God, says that it is God who gives him authority, and says that he will sit at the right side of God clearly means that Jesus is something other than God. If you would take evidence to a person that has never heard of any type of religion claiming what others have said that Jesus is God, that person might believe you. However, if you would have a debate with this same person with one side claiming Jesus is God and the other claiming he is not God, the unbeliever will conclude that Jesus is not God. After all, any judge in any courthouse that listens to just the evidence will say that Jesus is not God. This is because you cannot say that Jesus is God when he himself claims that he is only the Son of God. If you are the Son of Bob, then you cannot be your own Father. This evidence will outweigh any other evidence unless you can find some type of scripture that has Jesus himself saying I am God.

[twin.spin]

Jesus is both.

Matthew 1:23
"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" —which means, "God with us."

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Psalm 102:25
In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.

John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning...Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

Jesus calls himself Alpha and the Omega:
Revelation 22:13
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

Matthew 4:7
Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' " (Jesus' temptations by the devil)

Jesus accepted worship
John 20:28
Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

Luke 17:17-19
Jesus asked, "Were not all ten cleansed? Where are the other nine? Was no one found to return and give praise to God except this foreigner?" Then he said to him, "Rise and go; your faith has made you well."

The mind cannot accept this. We can't accept the God-man relationship. Accepting this only comes from God the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

[alicenevada]

See, in my own studies I've determined that all of the above scriptures prove Jesus is seperate from God. He is certainly a magnificent god-like being but is not the Almighty God. He is worthy of our praise and we should follow in his footsteps, but we don't pray to him...we pray through him.

[Alpha8207]

Originally Posted by twin.spin

Jesus is both.

Matthew 1:23
"The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel" —which means, "God with us."

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Psalm 102:25
In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands.

John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning...Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

Jesus calls himself Alpha and the Omega:
Revelation 22:13
I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

Matthew 4:7
Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.' " (Jesus' temptations by the devil)

Jesus accepted worship
John 20:28
Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

Luke 17:17-19
Jesus asked, "Were not all ten cleansed? Where are the other nine? Was no one found to return and give praise to God except this foreigner?" Then he said to him, "Rise and go; your faith has made you well."

The mind cannot accept this. We can't accept the God-man relationship. Accepting this only comes from God the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Amen twin!

And interestingly Jesus never rebuked a single soul for worshiping Him, although angels and others in scripture did rebuke those who worshiped or tried to worship them.

Truly He is worthy of our worship!

Great post.

[freedom]

Originally Posted by Alpha8207

Amen twin!

And interestingly Jesus never rebuked a single soul for worshiping Him, although angels and others in scripture did rebuke those who worshiped or tried to worship them.

Truly He is worthy of our worship!

Great post.

Amen, He is worthy!

godspeed,

freedom