Is Jesus God or Son of God ? (Gospel, Messiah, believing)

[simpleton]

Originally Posted by bwmillard

From other threads I have read I would be under the impression that all do not think Jesus is God.

Hebrews 1:6-13 6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."

7 In speaking of the angels he says, "He makes his angels winds, his servants flames of fire."

8 But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God will last forever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.

9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy"

10 He also says, "In the beginning, O Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain, they will all wear out like a garment.

12 You will roll them up like a robe; like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end."

13 To which of the angels did God ever say, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet."

Simple answer. Both. How it this possible through human logic? Answer: it's not. But what is impossible to man, is possible for God. We're not required to understand everything about God, we are required to have faith in his Word though.

[bwmillard]

Originally Posted by simpleton

Simple answer. Both. How it this possible through human logic? Answer: it's not. But what is impossible to man, is possible for God. We're not required to understand everything about God, we are required to have faith in his Word though.

Amen!!!! Thank you very well put...

[4Pillars]

Originally Posted by 4Pillars

The God of the Old Testament is the same God we have in the New Testament. Our God (Son) -- Jesus Christ -- is the same yesterday, today and will be in the future.

Originally Posted by 4Pillars

Look and readIsaiah 54:5 For thy MAKER is thine HUSBAND; the LORD of hosts is his name; and Redeemer Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.Revelation 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her HUSBAND. v9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

Originally Posted by SeekerSA

At best, this is a stretch, I see the link you make yet the Jews knew only of Jehovah. The only link is the HUSBAND. It does not prove Jesus is God.

No man has seen the Almighty God Father -- the Invisible Spirit of Love -- but Moses, Ezekiel as well as Shadrack, Meshesh, and Abednigo, who were with the LORD God in the fiery furnace, will tell you they saw Jesus for He is the Only Begotten Image of the Invisible Spirit of God. His Image is that of a man Glorified, whose Glory is Brighter than the Noonday Sun.

Jesus or Jehovah has always had fingers, even when He appeared to Ezekiel. Remember that the LORD God is Jesus, the Christ.

And it came to pass in the sixth year, in the sixth [month], in the fifth [day] of the month, [as] I sat in mine house, and the elders of Judah sat before me, that the hand of the Lord GOD fell there upon me. Then I beheld, and lo a likeness as the appearance of fire: from the appearance of His loins even downward, fire; and from His loins even upward, as the appearance of brightness, as the colour of amber. And He put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven,…… Eze 8:1-3



God Bless

[spm62]

Originally Posted by 4Pillars;26538

[COLOR=black

Jesus or Jehovah has always had fingers, even when He appeared to Ezekiel. Remember that the LORD God is Jesus, the Christ[/color]

but he`s not God the Father

[I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA]

Originally Posted by spm62

but he`s not God the Father

I believe He is

[spm62]

Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA

I believe He is

That is not what the scriptures say.
"...I am going to the Father, for the Father is GREATER than I" (John 14:28).
Is someone greater than Jesus? Yes...the Father..... Two seperate beings

"Now, whenever ALL may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself [Jesus Christ] also SHALL BE SUBJECTED TO HIM [God the Father] Who subjects all to Him, that GOD may be All in all."
Who is Jesus going to be subject too? The Father...again two seperate beings

Eph. 1:3: "Blessed be the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ"

Col. 1:3: "We are thanking the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ"

I Pet. 1:3: "Blessed be the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ"

Does Jesus have a God? YES...the Father...two seperate beings

"...there is ONE God, the FATHER..." (I Cor. 8:6)
There is one God almighty...The Father

"For He [the Father] hath put all things under His [Christ's] feet. But when He [the Father] saith, all things are put under Him [Christ] it is MANIFEST THAT HE [GOD THE FATHER] IS EXCEPTED, which did put all things under Him." 1 Cor 15:27

"And when all things shall be subdued unto Him [Christ], then shall the Son ALSO HIMSELF BE SUBJECT unto HIM [HIS GOD AND FATHER] that PUT all things under Him, that God may be all in all." 1 Cor 15:28

"My Father is GREATER than I" (John 14:28).
Does Jesus have a Father? Yes....two separate beings

"Jesus, being aware that the Father has GIVEN ALL INTO HIS HANDS, and that He came out FROM God and is going away TO God" (John 13:3).
Who gave Jesus all things? The Father..two seperate beings

I use to believe that also north carolina but there are just too many scriptures that say otherwise. I have to let God`s word be the authority.

[I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA]

Originally Posted by spm62

That is not what the scriptures say.
"...I am going to the Father, for the Father is GREATER than I" (John 14:28).
Is someone greater than Jesus? Yes...the Father..... Two seperate beings

"Now, whenever ALL may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself [Jesus Christ] also SHALL BE SUBJECTED TO HIM [God the Father] Who subjects all to Him, that GOD may be All in all."
Who is Jesus going to be subject too? The Father...again two seperate beings

Eph. 1:3: "Blessed be the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ"

Col. 1:3: "We are thanking the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ"

I Pet. 1:3: "Blessed be the God and Father OF our Lord Jesus Christ"

Does Jesus have a God? YES...the Father...two seperate beings

"...there is ONE God, the FATHER..." (I Cor. 8:6)
There is one God almighty...The Father

"For He [the Father] hath put all things under His [Christ's] feet. But when He [the Father] saith, all things are put under Him [Christ] it is MANIFEST THAT HE [GOD THE FATHER] IS EXCEPTED, which did put all things under Him." 1 Cor 15:27

"And when all things shall be subdued unto Him [Christ], then shall the Son ALSO HIMSELF BE SUBJECT unto HIM [HIS GOD AND FATHER] that PUT all things under Him, that God may be all in all." 1 Cor 15:28

"My Father is GREATER than I" (John 14:28).
Does Jesus have a Father? Yes....two separate beings

"Jesus, being aware that the Father has GIVEN ALL INTO HIS HANDS, and that He came out FROM God and is going away TO God" (John 13:3).
Who gave Jesus all things? The Father..two seperate beings

I use to believe that also north carolina but there are just too many scriptures that say otherwise. I have to let God`s word be the authority.

Well I disagree, I think there are too many scriptures that prove Jesus is God. As God the Son, Jesus willingly submits to God the Father.
Isaiah 9:6 "For a child is born to us, a Son is given to us, and the government will rest upon His shoulders, These will be His royal titles, Wonderful Counselor, MIGHTY GOD, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace".
John 1:1 "In the beginning the Word already existed, He was with God, AND HE WAS GOD". John 14:9 Jesus tells Philip anyone who has seen Him as seen the Father John 10:30 " The Father and I are ONE". which I believe is a the clearest statement Jesus made that He is God. The fact He claimed to God is why He was crucified.

[spm62]

Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA

Well I disagree, I think there are too many scriptures that prove Jesus is God. As God the Son, Jesus willingly submits to God the Father.
Isaiah 9:6 "For a child is born to us, a Son is given to us, and the government will rest upon His shoulders, These will be His royal titles, Wonderful Counselor, MIGHTY GOD, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace".
John 1:1 "In the beginning the Word already existed, He was with God, AND HE WAS GOD". John 14:9 Jesus tells Philip anyone who has seen Him as seen the Father John 10:30 " The Father and I are ONE". which I believe is a the clearest statement Jesus made that He is God. The fact He claimed to God is why He was crucified.

Then how do you explain the scriptures that I gave or this one?

"Nor Jesus said to him, Why are you terming Me good? No one is good except ONE, GOD" (Mark 10:18).

There are many more that say Jesus is not the father. I don`t understand why christians ignore those scriptures or do not believe them. But love to quote the Father and I are one scripture and create a doctrine around one verse that doesn`t say they are the same person. According to your analogy,do you also believe that the disciples are all the same person and they are God.?

"That they ALL may be ONE [Who?--ALL. How many?--ONE] as you Father are in Me, and I in You, that they also may be ONE in US... And the glory which You gave to Me I have given them, that they may be ONE, EVEN AS WE ARE ONE" (John 17:21-22).

since you believe the Father and I are one scripture mean the same person you must also apply the same analogy here. But I don`t believe the disciples are all the same person or are God like you do. I believe the disciples to be human beings who are one in purpose and unity but not the same person.They even had different names. peter,john,james etc. How can they be the same person?

[I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA]

Originally Posted by spm62

Then how do you explain the scriptures that I gave or this one?

"Nor Jesus said to him, Why are you terming Me good? No one is good except ONE, GOD" (Mark 10:18).

There are many more that say Jesus is not the father. I don`t understand why christians ignore those scriptures or do not believe them. But love to quote the Father and I are one scripture and create a doctrine around one verse that doesn`t say they are the same person. According to your analogy,do you also believe that the disciples are all the same person and they are God.?

"That they ALL may be ONE [Who?--ALL. How many?--ONE] as you Father are in Me, and I in You, that they also may be ONE in US... And the glory which You gave to Me I have given them, that they may be ONE, EVEN AS WE ARE ONE" (John 17:21-22).

since you believe the Father and I are one scripture mean the same person you must also apply the same analogy here. But I don`t believe the disciples are all the same person or are God like you do. I believe the disciples to be human beings who are one in purpose and unity but not the same person.They even had different names. peter,john,james etc. How can they be the same person?

There very verse you quoted Mark 10:18 to me proves He is God, "do you really know the one to whom you are talking, because only God is truly good, the man was calling Jesus God whether he realized it or not. I am amazed that Christians can read John 10:30 where Jesus said The Father and I are one and not realized His claim to be God is unmistakable.
I do not believe the disciples are the same person either, not sure where you got that from. But I do believe the Bible is very clear that Jesus is God. This is why He was crucified. But you're are probably not going to change your thoughts and I know I'm not. I respect what you believe.

[spm62]

Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA

I am amazed that Christians can read John 10:30 where Jesus said The Father and I are one and not realized His claim to be God is unmistakable.
I do not believe the disciples are the same person either, not sure where you got that from.

I got it from your analogy of John 10:30 that you gave. You believe because Jesus said He and the Father are one..that HAS to mean..the exact same person. So in the following verse Jesus is saying he wants the disciples to be one(the same exact person) like he and the Father are one(same exact person)

"That they ALL may be ONE [Who?--ALL. How many?--ONE] as you Father are in Me, and I in You, that they also may be ONE in US... And the glory which You gave to Me I have given them, that they may be ONE, EVEN AS WE ARE ONE" (John 17:21-22).

But notice Jesus said the word we..plural..we are one. Not I am one. But I know you`ve been taught that by your church and no matter how many scriptures are given that prove otherwise..you won`t believe it. Also notice that the 2 or 3 verses you give never say they are the same person. You have to imply,interject,or assume that. So when 2 people marry and become one flesh,do you think that means the same exact person also. Do you see how when we take your analogy of John 10:30,we can make a lot of people one and the same exact person. Of course we know the disciples are different people,just like we know married people are different people and we know Jesus and the Father are different. But people who cling to church doctrine don`t want to apply the same anology to John 17:21-22 that they apply to John 10:30,eventhough the same wording is used..wonder why?

Also you didn`t say what all of the verses I gave in the previous post could possibly mean. Obviously, Jesus made it clear that he is not the Father. There is just an over abundance of scripture, that plainly state that and NONE that say Jesus and the Father are the same person. But again,I know this isn`t what the church teaches and so therefore some christians won`t believe it.