Is Jesus God or Son of God ? (exodus, Holy Spirit, bible)

[SeekerSA]

Originally Posted by Alpha8207

Jesus is God.

Jesus is the Son of God.

If that doesn't make sense and you can't comprehend that, it means you are not God.

Just kidding (kinda)

Seriously, we have multiple gospels and multiple scriptures to show us multiple facets of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.

SeekerSa, I really like that diagram you posted that you don't believe.

And if you look carefully you can see a pyramid too viewed from the top and that gives a quadrinity

The symbol on the KJV bible has apparently origins in witchcraft Put away those matches

[SeekerSA]

Originally Posted by godofthunder

In my experience, the VAST MAJORITY of Christians do not know that they believe in the Trinity. That is to say, they don't understand the Trinity Doctrine. Most likely, they were so thoroughly confused in that particular Sunday School lesson that they just tuned it out when they were kids. Like most, they didn't get to deeply into their religion as life progressed. They just go to church and let the minister's message inspire them and make them feel spiritual, then go on about the rest of their week.

Many such people seemed to think I was nuts when I explained, "Oh, you say you're Methodist? Your religion accepts this concept about God." Most ordinary folk either don't know they are supposed to believe in the Trinitarian Doctrine or they never worry about it.

Yup, and the gospel is supposed to be simple even for kids to understand.

I wanted to paste a snippet of the study but could not find what I was looking for. The doctrine came about as a result of a Gnostic sect that denied something about Jesus. Ironically, the HS only made it into the equation about 150 years later so it was something that evolved.

On another discussion on this I did an exercise/study in the NT looking at Son of God vs scrips that imply Jesus is God, only three as far as I can remember. Once it became known that the "..and these three are one" appeared as add-ons from 1 John 5:7-8 certain folk were then stretched to make scrips fit the doctrine.

I must try locate that study and when I do I will post it. At the end of the day it is not critical, but I fair better w/o it.

Blessings

[mams1559]

Jesus is God. They are one and the same. Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world. On the trinity....

"The teaching of the Bible concerning the Trinity might be summarized thus. God is a Tri-unity, with each Person of the Godhead equally and fully and eternally God. Each is necessary, and each is distinct, and yet all are one. The three Persons appear in a logical, causal order. The Father is the unseen, omnipresent Source of all being, revealed in and by the Son, experienced in and by the Holy Spirit. The Son proceeds from the Father, and the Spirit from the Son. With reference to God's creation, the Father is the Thought behind it, the Son is the Word calling it forth, and the Spirit is the Deed making it a reality."

from :How can one God be three persons? - ChristianAnswers.Net

[cg81]

Originally Posted by SeekerSA

Yup, and the gospel is supposed to be simple even for kids to understand.

It is. It's us intellectually-minded adults who confuse the matter. Oh for faith as a little child!

[SeekerSA]

Originally Posted by mams1559

Jesus is God. --snip--
The Son proceeds from the Father, and the Spirit from the Son.
--snip--

This is a new one on me. It suggests rather a linear hierarchy and not a triangle. I could live with that but the HS is of the Father and not the Son IMO. In fact, the HS is the presence of the invisible Father hence at best we have a binity in a hierarchical sense.

Bed time for me, I will look at the link tomorrow. I must find the study I did.

Blessings

[spm62]

Originally Posted by mams1559

Jesus is God. They are one and the same. Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world. On the trinity....

Jesus has the title of God because it was giving to him by the Father. But, Jesus IS NOT the Father.

"The teaching of the Bible concerning the Trinity might be summarized thus. God is a Tri-unity, with each Person of the Godhead equally and fully and eternally God. Each is necessary, and each is distinct, and yet all are one.

It might be if you want to believe the church`s teaching about a trinity.

The three Persons appear in a logical, causal order.

What?

The Son proceeds from the Father, and the Spirit from the Son.

Who`s spirit did Jesus have? Isn`t God spirit? Isn`t the Father spirit? So you believe there are two spirits? God the Father and then a seperate Holy Spirit?

With reference to God's creation, the Father is the Thought behind it, the Son is the Word calling it forth, and the Spirit is the Deed making it a reality."

What? More churcheolgy trying to explain their doctrine. Just believe God`s word and not the church:
"For even if so be that there are those being termed gods, whether in heaven or on earth, even as there are many gods and many lords, nevertheless for US there is ONE God, the FATHER, out of Whom ALL IS, and we for Him, and ONE LORD, JESUS CHRIST, through Whom all is, and we through Him" (I Cor. 8:5-6).

How many God`s?...one
Who is that God... The Father. Not Jesus,not a holy spirit but who..Father
How many Lords.....one Not the father or holy spirit..but who..Jesus

Folks,it doesn`t get any clearer than this. You believe it or you don`t. God`s
word states it right here who THE God is. You don`t have to assume anything or read a church hypothesis or read some guys explanation why this isn`t really saying what it says but really means something else. Just read it and believe it. For anyone that still, after unrefutable scripture, believes in a church taught trinity..please tell me what this scripture and many many others like it mean when it says there is ONE GOD..THE FATHER. It doesn`t say there is one God..father ,son ,holy spirit. It says FATHER ONLY. Please don`t give me the 3 bear record in heaven scripture because that does not say they are all God the Father. EVERY scripture that one can come up with to try and prove the church`s trinity has to have assumptions made into it. You have to assume this is what is meant or you have to interject the church`s doctrine into it to get it to mean what you want it to mean.

[mams1559]

For clarity, let me say I am not debating anyone's position on this matter. I've stated my position and provided a link which I believe supports my position. I thought the Christianity sub-forum was not to denounce the faith but to provide understanding and fellowship for believers?

That's all my post is intended to do -- provide understanding of my belief in the Trinity. Lately it seems any differing view point is pounced upon and ripped apart and then countered and so on.

If you want to debate, fine. But it won't be with me.

Blessings to all

[I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA]

Originally Posted by spm62

Jesus has the title of God because it was giving to him by the Father. But, Jesus IS NOT the Father.

It might be if you want to believe the church`s teaching about a trinity. What? Who`s spirit did Jesus have? Isn`t God spirit? Isn`t the Father spirit? So you believe there are two spirits? God the Father and then a seperate Holy Spirit? What? More churcheolgy trying to explain their doctrine. Just believe God`s word and not the church:
"For even if so be that there are those being termed gods, whether in heaven or on earth, even as there are many gods and many lords, nevertheless for US there is ONE God, the FATHER, out of Whom ALL IS, and we for Him, and ONE LORD, JESUS CHRIST, through Whom all is, and we through Him" (I Cor. 8:5-6).

How many God`s?...one
Who is that God... The Father. Not Jesus,not a holy spirit but who..Father
How many Lords.....one Not the father or holy spirit..but who..Jesus

Folks,it doesn`t get any clearer than this. You believe it or you don`t. God`s
word states it right here who THE God is. You don`t have to assume anything or read a church hypothesis or read some guys explanation why this isn`t really saying what it says but really means something else. Just read it and believe it. For anyone that still, after unrefutable scripture, believes in a church taught trinity..please tell me what this scripture and many many others like it mean when it says there is ONE GOD..THE FATHER. It doesn`t say there is one God..father ,son ,holy spirit. It says FATHER ONLY. Please don`t give me the 3 bear record in heaven scripture because that does not say they are all God the Father. EVERY scripture that one can come up with to try and prove the church`s trinity has to have assumptions made into it. You have to assume this is what is meant or you have to interject the church`s doctrine into it to get it to mean what you want it to mean.

Well I read the same Bible you do and I believe it teaches Jesus IS God and there IS a trinity, but it would be pointless to quote scripture to you on that, it already been quoted. Like I said before the reason Jesus was crucified was because He said He was God. Yes one God in three persons, blessed Trinity.

[I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA]

Originally Posted by mams1559

For clarity, let me say I am not debating anyone's position on this matter. I've stated my position and provided a link which I believe supports my position. I thought the Christianity sub-forum was not to denounce the faith but to provide understanding and fellowship for believers?

That's all my post is intended to do -- provide understanding of my belief in the Trinity. Lately it seems any differing view point is pounced upon and ripped apart and then countered and so on.

If you want to debate, fine. But it won't be with me.

Blessings to all

Good point mams, thanks for this post, it helped to realize I need to stop with this subject, I have stated what I believe and why. I also thought this was supposed to be a place where what you believe did not get ripped apart, but a place where we would uplift each other.

[spm62]

Originally Posted by mams1559

For clarity, let me say I am not debating anyone's position on this matter. I've stated my position and provided a link which I believe supports my position. I thought the Christianity sub-forum was not to denounce the faith but to provide understanding and fellowship for believers?

That's all my post is intended to do -- provide understanding of my belief in the Trinity. Lately it seems any differing view point is pounced upon and ripped apart and then countered and so on.

If you want to debate, fine. But it won't be with me.

Blessings to all

I understand. I`m just providing scripture not a link to someone`s opinion. I believe it is God`s word that is the final authority, not mans or the churches word. So I do understand what you believe about a trinity and why you believe it. I once believed the same thing for 40 years. The only thing I feel I can do as a human being is provide scripture and let that be the light. If someone doesn`t like that or thinks my opinion is wrong then all I ask is to provide scripture. That`s how I learn. Give me scripture and then tell me what the scriptures I`m providing are really saying. What I found mostly happens though is,people won`t give me an explanantion for the scriptures I provide. They just throw out church doctrine or 1 or 2 verses that could possibly mean what they want it to if you twist it a little bit. I`m sorry but I can`t base my beliefs on what the church says. I have to base it on God`s word. No disrespect to you. I hope you understand.