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Old 01-31-2010, 07:26 PM
 
2 posts, read 5,706 times
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"...I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together...Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I." "...I am learned, and know more than all the world put together." Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6 pg. 5 - History of the Church Vol. 6 pg. 408-409. Quotes by Joseph Smith.

Boy am I glad I didn't say that. Seems to me that someone who claims to know more than all the world put together would know enough not to insult God and Jesus Christ like that. Here's another quote, this one from the bible; "For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased;"

One other thought occurs to me. "...I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together..." Did Joseph Smith never hear of the Catholic Church? (much older than the Mormon chruch) and what about the Jewish Church? (much older than the Catholic Church).

Last edited by Luke14:11; 01-31-2010 at 07:41 PM.. Reason: missing word, mis-spelled, last comment
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Old 01-31-2010, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Utah
2,331 posts, read 3,009,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke14:11 View Post
"...I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together...Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I." "...I am learned, and know more than all the world put together." Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6 pg. 5 - History of the Church Vol. 6 pg. 408-409. Quotes by Joseph Smith.

Boy am I glad I didn't say that. Seems to me that someone who claims to know more than all the world put together would know enough not to insult God and Jesus Christ like that. Here's another quote, this one from the bible; "For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased;"
It's quite possible that someone said that Joseph Smith said whatever and I'm sure that many anti-Mormon sites are claiming he said what you said he said, and maybe he did, he was a fallible man as well as a Prophet of God.

But I had a look at the Journal of Discourses Vol. 6, page 5 and found no such thing.


------
Many critics find fault with the LDS Church by searching through Journals of Discourses or compiled teachings of early Church leaders, or finding quotes from such journals on anti-Mormon websites. They fail to understand that the Saints love and respect early Prophets and Church leaders but understand that they are human beings prone to making mistakes the same as were prophets from ancient times. Only God Himself is infallible, as are Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost who speaks for the Godhead.

Some critics perhaps also fail to understand that many things in journals were written by the hand of others who in many cases were recalling things they'd heard at one time, and placing their own emphases and personal interpretations and understandings on. In those days some scribes and writers wrote in the first person, as if it was the person they are writing for who was doing the writing.

Latter-day Saints should not be expected to defend criticisms about things written anywhere except in their canon. They are bound only to the doctrines that constitute official LDS canon.


Below are some pertinent excerpts from the LDS Newsroom.

Not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. A single statement made by a single leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, but is not meant to be officially binding for the whole Church. With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four “standard works” of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith. Isolated statements are often taken out of context, leaving their original meaning distorted.

Some doctrines are more important than others and might be considered core doctrines. For example, the precise location of the Garden of Eden is far less important than doctrine about Jesus Christ and His atoning sacrifice. The mistake that public commentators often make is taking an obscure teaching that is peripheral to the Church’s purpose and placing it at the very center. This is especially common among reporters or researchers who rely on how other Christians interpret Latter-day Saint doctrine.

Based on the scriptures, Joseph Smith declared: “The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it.”

Approaching Mormon Doctrine - LDS Newsroom

Last edited by justamere10; 01-31-2010 at 10:29 PM..
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Old 01-31-2010, 10:17 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,438,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10 View Post
It's quite possible that someone said that Joseph Smith said whatever and I'm sure that many anti-Mormon sites are claiming he said what you said he said, and maybe he did, he was a fallible man as well as a Prophet of God. But I had a look at the Journal of Discourses Vol. 6, page 5 and found no such thing.

Good thing that the Church Jesus founded is not founded on "fallible men" like Joe Smith and Brigham Young, but is founded on "Jesus Christ, the Chief Cornerstone"

Quote:
Arrogance (http://www.ils.unc.edu/%7Eunsworth/mormon/arrogance.html - broken link)
Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. (1805 – 1844):

"...if any man preach any other Gospel than that which I have preached, he shall be cursed; "
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 366, also in History of the Church, v. 6, p.365


“Come on! ye persecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet... When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go.”

- Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr., History of the Church, v. 6, pp. 408-409
Quote:
Originally Posted by justamere10 View Post
Latter-day Saints should not be expected to defend criticisms about things written anywhere except in their canon. They are bound only to the doctrines that constitute official LDS canon.
My experience with you is that you cry foul when the things in the BOM and other books you hold as sacred which are truly damning, by showing your "fallible men's thinking processes", are brought to light.
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