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Just a thought. Since Jesus has conquered death, perhaps we should now refer to our death as a birth. Jesus was "born again" as Spirit and so will we be, if Jesus is to be believed. Like any birth, the emergence from the "womb" existence is no indication of what the life will be like after the "birth." It seems silly to pretend that we have any idea at all of what it will be like.
What makes you think the son of man cannot be you?
Jesus said who His brothers and sisters are, that He gave them the words and glory given to Him so they are One as He is One. He said that all judgment is given to the son and those who follow Him will judge.
He said whatever is bound or loosed by them on earth the same is done in heaven.
Was He speaking only of the eleven disciples or all disciples since they are to make more disciples as them?
Just a thought. Since Jesus has conquered death, perhaps we should now refer to our death as a birth. Jesus was "born again" as Spirit and so will we be, if Jesus is to be believed. Like any birth, the emergence from the "womb" existence is no indication of what the life will be like after the "birth." It seems silly to pretend that we have any idea at all of what it will be like.
It would be foolish to pretend that we know (for certain)what will happen after we die. All we can do is to consider the contents of the Bible and try to decide what, if any, of it can be a guide to what happens after death. I gather that you would suggest that Jesus was God -inspired to give us some indications.
Well, if so, where there are contradictions it would seem important to see what is Jesus -original and what is man's doctrinal input.
Not that it makes any difference in the end, since what is beyond the curtain of the ghost train is what it is, whether we have prior warning or not.
It may be useful to have some prior warning, though. I'm ok. I have my copy of 'Coming forth by day' so I have all the right answers.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 08-29-2015 at 12:55 PM..
Reason: a bit of an edit
The renting of the banner at the precise moment when Jesus died signified the cutting off of the Israelites as Gods chosen-Matt 23:37-38 verifies their house is abandoned to them( cut off).
Who was there to see this occur?...
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But God out of his great love and Mercy left the door open to them--they must accept Jesus as the Messiah--they have refused for over 1900 years, it will not change.
That is close to being Anti-Semitic...
Jesus said that he was sent to seek AND save the lost and in another part he tells you who those lost are, the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel...
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Jesus started a new religion, trained the apostles to be his teachers, who in turn trained others to teach.
You are correct...Christianity IS a new religion...It's central figure is a triune god...It no longer has a connection to the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob...
But, I'll proffer that someone took Jesus and built for themselves a mystery religion on his foundation...
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You are taking Matt 10:28 out of context--men can kill souls. Joshua 11:11--Gen 1:20,21,24,25--animals-fish became living souls---
The word that they translated as soul is:
G5590
ψυχή
psuchē
Thayer Definition:
1) breath
1a) the breath of life
1a1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing
1a1a) of animals
1a1b) of men
1b) life
1c) that in which there is life
1c1) a living being, a living soul
Which would be the Hebrew Ruach....However, the Hebrew Neshama means soul...So, G-d blew the RUACH into man's nostrils and man became a living Neshama...
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so in reality--the soul is the breath of life. Gen 2:7
Actally it is, and the only purpose of not having the debate is to let Bible apologetics get away with not having its flaws exposed.
So according to Luke, the penitent malefactor would be with Jesus in Paradise on the Friday. So unless Jesus went to Hades, Paradise is in heaven.
Paradise is now located in the third heaven as Paul states in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4. But before Jesus went to the cross Paradise or Abraham's Bosom was located in Hades. Everyone who was in Abraham's Bosom was transferred to the third heaven after Jesus made the third heaven accessible as signified by the tearing of the temple veil. See my other posts on that in this thread.
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And didn't Elijah ascend to heaven in a fiery chariot?
Yes. (2 Kings 2:11)
But which heaven was being referred to? Paul speaks of three heavens (2 Cor. 12:2). And these three heavens are, 1.) The earth's atmosphere: 1 Kings 14:11; 2.) The stellar Universe: Deuteronomy 4:19; 3.) The third heaven: 2 Cor. 12:2-4
While there are those who think the third heaven is being referred to, there are those who think that 2 Kings 2:11 simply means that Elijah was caught up into the air and transported to a different location on the earth only to die at a later time at which point he would have gone to Abraham's Bosom. There is some Scriptural evidence which may suggest this to be the case. Some years after Elijah 'went up by a whirlwind to heaven', an Elijah wrote a letter to Jehoram, the king of Judah (2 Chronicles 21:12-15). Jehoram became king after Elijah was 'taken up.' Was it the same Elijah, or a different prophet with the same name?
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And doesn't the whole David's Son argument mean that David's spirit and Adams' are in Heaven? And doesn't that mean that Moses and Abraham are there too?
All Old Testament believers are now in the third heaven. But before Jesus went to the cross, all Old Testament believers were in Abraham's Bosom or Paradise which was at that time located in Hades.
But just for the sake of argument, let's assume that Jesus didn't mean that Abraham's Bosom was actually in Hades in a separate section from the torments side (Luke 16:19-21), but only that in some way Lazarus and the rich man were able to see each other. The fact still remains that before Jesus went to the cross, no one had access to the third heaven. I have already mentioned in posts #26 and 27 the significance of the torn veil in the temple and the fact that the Holy of holies in the temple represented the true Holy of holies in heaven. Just as no one except for the high priest was allowed to enter into the holy of holies in the temple, and he could only enter once a year on the day of atonement, no one was allowed into the true Holy of holies in heaven until Jesus who is the great high priest removed the 'veil' with His death on the cross which was signified by the tearing of the veil in the temple. With His death the veil beyond which no one could pass into the true Holy of holies was removed and heaven was now accessible to those who receive Jesus as Savior.
Jesus said that he was sent to seek AND save the lost and in another part he tells you who those lost are, the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel...
You are correct...Christianity IS a new religion...It's central figure is a triune god...It no longer has a connection to the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob...
But, I'll proffer that someone took Jesus and built for themselves a mystery religion on his foundation...
The word that they translated as soul is:
G5590
ψυχή
psuchē
Thayer Definition: 1) breath 1a) the breath of life 1a1) the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing 1a1a) of animals 1a1b) of men 1b) life 1c) that in which there is life 1c1) a living being, a living soul
Which would be the Hebrew Ruach....However, the Hebrew Neshama means soul...So, G-d blew the RUACH into man's nostrils and man became a living Neshama...
You are confused here...
All is not as appears in this world, its view has you confused--the trinity religionssssssssss are a divided house--Gods word is clear about that--They will not stand-Mark 3:24-26) They pose as Christian but in reality are this-2Thess 2:3)
The religion Jesus began, serve the same exact God of the ot( Israelites)--YHVH(Jehovah) a single being God and accept Jesus as the Messiah.
The Jews are still God's chosen people though they have been TEMPORARILY set aside until the times of the Gentiles has come in (Luke 21:24). As a result of the judgments of the Tribulation the Jews will come to realize that Jesus is the Messiah. And when Jesus returns He will establish His Millennial kingdom which will have a decidedly Jewish flavor. At that time the Abrahamic, Land, and New Covenant to Israel will be fulfilled.
The tearing of the veil in the temple could very well have had as part of its significance God's judgment on the temple. However, the curtain separated the Holy of holies from the rest of the temple. No one was allowed to enter into the Holy of holies except for the high priest, and then only once a year on the day of atonement. The Holy of holies in the temple represented the true Holy of holies in heaven, or which is heaven itself (Hebrews 9:24). The veil represented Christ's flesh (Hebrews 10:20). Therefore, when Jesus died and the temple veil was torn this signified that the entrance to the true Holy of holies - heaven, was open to those who receive Christ as Savior.
Your thinking on the matter of heaven is an impossibility--only 144,000( Luke 12:32=little flock=anointed) are promised heaven--Rev 14:3-- see the word bought from the earth, bought by Jesus' blood--Jesus promised the great multitude--The earth.( Matt 5:5)--the psalmist even taught that truth-Psalm 37:9,11,29
Paradise is now located in the third heaven as Paul states in 2 Corinthians 12:2-4. But before Jesus went to the cross Paradise or Abraham's Bosom was located in Hades. Everyone who was in Abraham's Bosom was transferred to the third heaven after Jesus made the third heaven accessible as signified by the tearing of the temple veil. See my other posts on that in this thread.
No, it is not and he doesn't not state this...
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All Old Testament believers are now in the third heaven. But before Jesus went to the cross, all Old Testament believers were in Abraham's Bosom or Paradise which was at that time located in Hades.
No, they're not...They wait in the grave until the day of resurrection...
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Just as no one except for the high priest was allowed to enter into the holy of holies in the temple, and he could only enter once a year on the day of atonement.
The bolded above is a false statement...
Quote:
no one was allowed into the true Holy of holies in heaven until Jesus who is the great high priest removed the 'veil' with His death on the cross which was signified by the tearing of the veil in the temple. With His death the veil beyond which no one could pass into the true Holy of holies was removed and heaven was now accessible to those who receive Jesus as Savior.
Your thinking on the matter of heaven is an impossibility--only 144,000( Luke 12:32=little flock=anointed) are promised heaven--Rev 14:3-- see the word bought from the earth, bought by Jesus' blood--Jesus promised the great multitude--The earth.( Matt 5:5)--the psalmist even taught that truth-Psalm 37:9,11,29
It's only Jews:
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of those sealed, (one hundred and forty four thousands were sealed out of all the tribes of the sons of Israel):
Rev 7:5 of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;
Rev 7:6 of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;
Rev 7:7 of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;
Rev 7:8 of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed; of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.
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