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If you were to die tonight, do you think you would go to heaven?
The analogy is,
When you are sent back to stone age to tell humans there black holes exist. How would they respond?
The only way for them to reach such a truth is by putting faith in you. The best bet for them to trust you is that you write the information about black holes then choose to martyr yourself for what is said. There's no better way round.
And when you are put in that situation, you can well say that, "I am the truth, I am the way....". That's the only way anyway.
Thanks for your reply. As for the Bible, I think it is a record of God's intervention in human affairs. As I mentioned, my beliefs changed after my dreams and visions. I am surprised at your interest, mostly, I have been ignored as some kind of crazy person. Almost nothing I have learned fits with the Christianity. And yet, nothing that I've learned invalidates the Bible, it just puts Christianity into question. What I know is Jesus was God, not the son of God. Furthermore, I've learned God is a duality, which may explain gospel interpretations about Jesus being both father and son.
I like your statement, "You said something that hits close to home for me. I've toyed with the idea that paradise is here on earth. Once there is no evil, no trouble, no sadness, etc, what a perfect, beautiful, breathtaking place this earth would be."
Based on what I know, what remains of nature is what is left after the fall of paradise. I see nature as once in perfect harmony with God. Each creature shrieked, bellowed, or communicated in its own way, adoration and appreciation for God. God created all of those creatures for his pleasure. I had a vision of God and His angels above dinosaurs and other creatures in paradise. Creatures made loving sounds in the presence of God. God's holy light made it a kind of heaven. I have since concluded it was heaven on earth.
I believe all creatures, including humans, are wired to love and worship God. It is a very involved story, but, basically, Satan has taken us away from God and paradise.
Tee hee hee. Yeah, I've been considered a crazy person, too, for some of my beliefs. My beliefs go against everything OR teaches. I don't have a complete enough science background to really explain my beliefs about the Bible having room for science. We have some very knowledgeable people on this forum. I listen to everybody. I never know when someone is going to say even just one line that opens a door for me to expanded thinking. I've learned a lot here.
It's like you and the dinosaurs. I believe dinosaurs roamed the earth before Adam was formed. Your belief in dinosaurs is another piece of evidence I can embrace.
You and I disagree about God and Jesus. I believe they are two separate entities. But we don't have to be enemies because of it.
Tee hee hee. Yeah, I've been considered a crazy person, too, for some of my beliefs. My beliefs go against everything OR teaches. I don't have a complete enough science background to really explain my beliefs about the Bible having room for science. We have some very knowledgeable people on this forum. I listen to everybody. I never know when someone is going to say even just one line that opens a door for me to expanded thinking. I've learned a lot here.
It's like you and the dinosaurs. I believe dinosaurs roamed the earth before Adam was formed. Your belief in dinosaurs is another piece of evidence I can embrace.
You and I disagree about God and Jesus. I believe they are two separate entities. But we don't have to be enemies because of it.
Why is Christianity in question for you?
I like Christians and attend a Baptist church with my wife. I keep the faith for the sake of civility. However, based on my dreams, I don't believe Jesus as the son of God. I don't have prove, but neither do Christians, just a lot of faith in gospels stories. I have done a lot of research about the gospels and have found them wanting. I learned research skills in grad. school. I have found they don't hold up to scrutiny. Mostly, it is the narrative that is wrong. If you research it, you will not find those narratives in earlier gospels, the ones church leaders tried to destroy but have recently been discovered. I don't believe humans are holy, and they have a good record for story telling or, if you will, lying. So I don't believe the gospel message as God's truth.
I like Christians and attend a Baptist church with my wife. I keep the faith for the sake of civility. However, based on my dreams, I don't believe Jesus as the son of God. I don't have prove, but neither do Christians, just a lot of faith in gospels stories. I have done a lot of research about the gospels and have found them wanting. I learned research skills in grad. school. I have found they don't hold up to scrutiny. Mostly, it is the narrative that is wrong. If you research it, you will not find those narratives in earlier gospels, the ones church leaders tried to destroy but have recently been discovered. I don't believe humans are holy, and they have a good record for story telling or, if you will, lying. So I don't believe the gospel message as God's truth.
Ok. I understand what you are saying.
"keeping the faith for the sake of civility" must be difficult. I was a Baptist (and a Methodist and a bunch of other things before I finally left) and a Christian, but I couldn't keep the faith by going to church. There was too much hatred, pettiness, holier-than-thou; the preachers were not preaching the Bible. I couldn't find God in church. I used to sit there ask God where He was. I never got an answer in church. It wasn't until I left church that I found God in my own home in the middle of the night. I learned about God and Jesus at home when I was very young before I started reading the Bible. Once I started reading the Bible at age 7, church did a very bad number on my head. The more I have read and studied over the last 54 years, the more I have learned by communing with God. For many years, I studied and learned about the Bible, but I lost God in church. It wasn't until later, after I left church, that I found God again.
I know that the Baptist are now teaching the Trinity. That started in the mid-1980s. Prior to that the Baptist churches I attended did not. That was a design of the Catholic Church and their off-shoots. The Bible does not bear out the Trinity - according to my reading. The Bible doesn't bear out many things churches teach - according to my reading.
"keeping the faith for the sake of civility" must be difficult. I was a Baptist (and a Methodist and a bunch of other things before I finally left) and a Christian, but I couldn't keep the faith by going to church. There was too much hatred, pettiness, holier-than-thou; the preachers were not preaching the Bible. I couldn't find God in church. I used to sit there ask God where He was. I never got an answer in church. It wasn't until I left church that I found God in my own home in the middle of the night. I learned about God and Jesus at home when I was very young before I started reading the Bible. Once I started reading the Bible at age 7, church did a very bad number on my head. The more I have read and studied over the last 54 years, the more I have learned by communing with God. For many years, I studied and learned about the Bible, but I lost God in church. It wasn't until later, after I left church, that I found God again.
I know that the Baptist are now teaching the Trinity. That started in the mid-1980s. Prior to that the Baptist churches I attended did not. That was a design of the Catholic Church and their off-shoots. The Bible does not bear out the Trinity - according to my reading. The Bible doesn't bear out many things churches teach - according to my reading.
Your story coincides with mine in many ways. I have never found God in church, its just a social function with my wife. She is a strong believer in the son of God. We don't debate it. If I debated my ideas we would have no peace. Sometimes I read my favorite OT verses while listening to the sermon. Once in a while I get into debates with preachers. They seem to live in a box, there are no other beliefs there, just what they learned in religious classes. If there is no son of God, there would be no trinity. Because I believe Jesus was God and not the son of God, the trinity doesn't work.
As long as you find God, life is worthwhile. I researched the trinity. It is not in the Bible, it was made up by church leaders, part of their long journey to "invent religion." Not much in churches relates to God or His purpose. I consider religion to be a kind of business with altruistic beliefs.
As for the trinity, I had a vision about God that refutes the concept. Several months ago, I was sitting quietly in my living room with my eyes closed. Suddenly, in my head there were two shiny pearls side by side, they were equal in size and appeared to be inseparable. It was an image of God's duality. Based on what I know about science, God's DNA is in nature (matter and anti-matter, protons and neutrons, positive and negative charges, force fields (gravity), and other things in relationship to physical laws, two wings of birds, two eyes, two ears, two arms, two legs, etc. Duality is everywhere in nature. I once has a dream about the two Gods in a sphere interacting with angels. It explains a lot of confusion about Jesus being father and son, or followers not being able to explain who Jesus was. It is the greatest mystery in all existence. How do you explain God's duality? Which God is in charge and under what circumstances. It is an eternal partnership. Before God created angels He was His own companion. I believe the purpose of heaven is for God's creatures to enjoy interacting with the two Gods, it is an eternal party.
Your story coincides with mine in many ways. I have never found God in church, its just a social function with my wife. She is a strong believer in the son of God. We don't debate it. If I debated my ideas we would have no peace. Sometimes I read my favorite OT verses while listening to the sermon. Once in a while I get into debates with preachers. They seem to live in a box, there are no other beliefs there, just what they learned in religious classes.
I think our stories totally coincide. All of the above is what I have found, too.
Yes, I've had those discussions with preachers myself. I do believe they live in a box - a box built in seminary. The answer I always got was, "You are not suppose to understand. You are just supposed to accept what you are told." Yeah, right. That will be the day. A couple of years ago, I met a retired preacher. I asked him where the races came from. He told me, "your not supposed to understand." It's been 40 years and they are still singing the same old song. geez!
Quote:
Originally Posted by earl012
If there is no son of God, there would be no trinity. Because I believe Jesus was God and not the son of God, the trinity doesn't work.
Well, the Trinity as they taught it to me was that there was only God. God was God. God was Jesus. God was the Holy Spirit. God came to earth as a man named Jesus. God died on the cross. The Bible does not bear this out. Jesus went out into the garden and prayed. Who did Jesus pray to? So, God prayed to himself??? When Jesus was on the cross, he called out to God. If God was on the cross, who did he call out to? Himself???? To me, that is insane. There are too many times when Jesus and God interacted that proves to me the God and Jesus were two separate entities - a father and a son. The NT tells us that on the day Jesus was baptized, the heavens opened up and God said, "This is my son of whom I am most proud." For many reasons, I cannot believe in the Trinity. I believe there were 3 separate entities, two of who were made by God to do God's work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by earl012
As long as you find God, life is worthwhile. I researched the trinity. It is not in the Bible, it was made up by church leaders, part of their long journey to "invent religion." Not much in churches relates to God or His purpose. I consider religion to be a kind of business with altruistic beliefs.
Amen to that. I totally agree. The Trinity is not in the Bible and it was made up by church leaders - the Catholics. You are right, not much in church relates to God or his purpose. I agree that religion is big business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by earl012
As for the trinity, I had a vision about God that refutes the concept. Several months ago, I was sitting quietly in my living room with my eyes closed. Suddenly, in my head there were two shiny pearls side by side, they were equal in size and appeared to be inseparable. It was an image of God's duality. Based on what I know about science, God's DNA is in nature (matter and anti-matter, protons and neutrons, positive and negative charges, force fields (gravity), and other things in relationship to physical laws, two wings of birds, two eyes, two ears, two arms, two legs, etc. Duality is everywhere in nature. I once has a dream about the two Gods in a sphere interacting with angels. It explains a lot of confusion about Jesus being father and son, or followers not being able to explain who Jesus was. It is the greatest mystery in all existence. How do you explain God's duality? Which God is in charge and under what circumstances. It is an eternal partnership. Before God created angels He was His own companion. I believe the purpose of heaven is for God's creatures to enjoy interacting with the two Gods, it is an eternal party.
Ok. I see what you are saying here. I don't have the gift of visions. So I have no experience with God's duality. Only one God has been revealed to me. If there is more, I have not been chosen to see it.
If you were to die tonight, do you think you would go to heaven?
Only the anointed= the little flock( Luke 12:32) = the bride of Christ=144,000 are bought from the earth and promised heaven( Rev 14:3)--no where in Gods written word is the great multitude promised heaven. In Fact Jesus spoke these words to them- Matt 5:5--Blessed are the meek for they( great multitude) will inherit the earth.
The psalmist knew it was truth as well--Psalm 37:9,11,29--The righteous themselves will possess the earth and reside forever upon it.
Jesus' real teachers, teach that fact as well.
I think our stories totally coincide. All of the above is what I have found, too.
Yes, I've had those discussions with preachers myself. I do believe they live in a box - a box built in seminary. The answer I always got was, "You are not suppose to understand. You are just supposed to accept what you are told." Yeah, right. That will be the day. A couple of years ago, I met a retired preacher. I asked him where the races came from. He told me, "your not supposed to understand." It's been 40 years and they are still singing the same old song. geez!
Well, the Trinity as they taught it to me was that there was only God. God was God. God was Jesus. God was the Holy Spirit. God came to earth as a man named Jesus. God died on the cross. The Bible does not bear this out. Jesus went out into the garden and prayed. Who did Jesus pray to? So, God prayed to himself??? When Jesus was on the cross, he called out to God. If God was on the cross, who did he call out to? Himself???? To me, that is insane. There are too many times when Jesus and God interacted that proves to me the God and Jesus were two separate entities - a father and a son. The NT tells us that on the day Jesus was baptized, the heavens opened up and God said, "This is my son of whom I am most proud." For many reasons, I cannot believe in the Trinity. I believe there were 3 separate entities, two of who were made by God to do God's work.
Amen to that. I totally agree. The Trinity is not in the Bible and it was made up by church leaders - the Catholics. You are right, not much in church relates to God or his purpose. I agree that religion is big business.
Ok. I see what you are saying here. I don't have the gift of visions. So I have no experience with God's duality. Only one God has been revealed to me. If there is more, I have not been chosen to see it.
I think one of the reasons those preachers kept saying, "you not suppose to understand," is perhaps they don't understand. Also, they want to keep it in the privacy of their elite club. As for the gospels, I think as soon as the NT authors decided Jesus was the son of God, they made up stories to support that theme. They couldn't turn back to look at early gospels that say nothing about Jesus being the son of God. Son God stories was jazzed up to make Jesus a superior human with good character and special gifts. If you read the early gospels they were about Jesus sayings, there was nothing about healing people, walking on water, etc. Those stories was concocted by the NT authors to make Jesus into a romantic figure. Kind of like what Hollywood screen writers do to spice up the story to make a movie popular.
As for my vision about the two pearls, I don't know why it happened. I have found it to be awkward. I have discovered things from my dreams and visions that defy the New Testament, mostly because I have learned Jesus was God and not the son of God. I think it best not to discuss them on this forum. There is not much more, just clarification about God, Jesus, paradise, and Satan. Theologians may or may not agree, mostly, they would not agree. As an example, one of my dreams explained how Jesus died. It was not from being crucified. On a dirt road, two Roman soldiers stood over Jesus on his knees. One was beating Jesus with his fist as the other stood watching. There were no people nearby. Obviously, the soldiers did not want eyewitnesses.
That dream fits with Revelation 11. I believe that is the true story about what happened to Jesus. It is about "two witnesses," which represents the duality of God. It is also interesting that the time and story line for the two witnesses fits with the gospel time frame and events. In the Rev. 11 story about the two witnesses, they lay on the ground for 31/2 days before ascending into heaven, similar to gospel stories. The gospel stories are too well scripted, they were written in order to glamorous Jesus, rather than to tell the truth. Based on history, for about two decades after the death of Jesus, there is not much detail, just what he said to his followers. Here is what I think happened. God (Jesus) came into the world to give testimony to His chosen people. Things didn't go well, just as in OT times, they were not happy to hear about disobedience, about changing laws, or about what God wanted from them. After hearing Jesus had been murdered by Romans, they scattered. They may have feared reprisal, but mostly they didn't want anything to do with Jesus. He had become a disappointing prophet, or whoever he said he was. NT authors refused to tell that kind of story, thus we have a romantic story about Jesus dying on the cross to save humankind.
For about two or three decades following the death of Jesus you do not find historical information about the circumstances of his death. Remember, the NT gospels were written about two to three decades after the death of Jesus. And there was absolutely no mention of Jesus being crucified. It is interesting, Christians, especially clergy, refuse to confront historical facts related to Jesus. I mentioned my well documented case against the NT gospel narratives to our preacher. He got from the lunch table and stormed from the restaurant. Now he avoids me like the plague. I once told a Christian missionary about my ideas, he told me Satan was responsible for my dreams. Skip the dreams, how about historical facts? Christian clergy are brain dead when it comes to questioning the NT gospels.
"keeping the faith for the sake of civility" must be difficult. I was a Baptist (and a Methodist and a bunch of other things before I finally left) and a Christian, but I couldn't keep the faith by going to church. There was too much hatred, pettiness, holier-than-thou; the preachers were not preaching the Bible. I couldn't find God in church. I used to sit there ask God where He was. I never got an answer in church. It wasn't until I left church that I found God in my own home in the middle of the night. I learned about God and Jesus at home when I was very young before I started reading the Bible. Once I started reading the Bible at age 7, church did a very bad number on my head. The more I have read and studied over the last 54 years, the more I have learned by communing with God. For many years, I studied and learned about the Bible, but I lost God in church. It wasn't until later, after I left church, that I found God again.
I know that the Baptist are now teaching the Trinity. That started in the mid-1980s. Prior to that the Baptist churches I attended did not. That was a design of the Catholic Church and their off-shoots. The Bible does not bear out the Trinity - according to my reading. The Bible doesn't bear out many things churches teach - according to my reading.
Jesus' real anointed teachers are on the earth, here in these last days.And you are correct, they are not found in a building called a church, they do not teach what Jesus taught in churches. Truth has become abundant( Daniel 12:4) through Jesus' anointed teachers--otherwise no one could accomplish this--John 4:22-24
Born again carries the connotation of anew, or a "renewing" of the mind and heart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
But born "again" implies a non-continuation of the original birth. We have all been born but we cannot be born AGAIN, until this life is over. We can only be "born of God" (gennao= conceived, begotten) as embryo Spirits. This life is our spiritual "womb" existence.
In either case, there is a transformation that takes place; a change in form, appearance, or character.
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