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Old 09-28-2018, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,298 posts, read 84,311,090 times
Reputation: 114648

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Would it kill you to tell me what Biblical teaching is wrong in #1 above?
Besides the one I demonstrated by pointing you in the direction of the Good Sam story?

There are a lot of them, obviously. But in keeping with the topic of the thread, OK, let's do the Leviticus ones:

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)



Let's keep this to consensual sex, OK, and leave out the tangents about pedophiles and rapists and whatnot. That's a whole different subject and not related to the intent of this thread.

The first one doesn't come with a directive for punishment, but it still calls homosexual activity an abomination. That's a pretty crappy and hurtful thing to say to a person who is simply enjoying their natural physical desires with a partner, especially one for whom they have love and affection. Heterosexual people who engage in sexual activity aren't told that their activity is "an abomination". Therefore, the compassionate thing to do would be to stop saying that, whether to their face, posted on signs, or about people you know even if you don't say it to their face.

The second verse is obviously horrific and obviously easily trumped by compassion. PUT THEM TO DEATH????? Yeah--biblical--but PUT THEM TO DEATH????????????????

Now, I'm pretty sure that you personally aren't in the business of putting gay people to death. We've talked in either this or another thread about how and why an ancient culture such as the one that developed these laws would have not accepted sexual activity that did not promote procreation and the strengthening of numbers of the tribe. They were not having any of this man-lying-with-man business, no sir, and they needed to show they meant it.

There are actually people out there who believe God said these words, not the people who wrote them. Crazy, huh? This is a very good example, as a matter of fact, of the danger of believing that the Bible is in the inerrant Word of God.

I'm sure there are people in this country who would be OK with putting gay people to death, but we have laws against murder, just like the Bible does, because it IS compassionate, at the very least, not to kill people we find repulsive for any reason.

Overall, the compassionate thing to do would be to disregard these verses as the utterings of an ancient culture, and just let people be who they are. Then perhaps we can all move forward to working on things that really matter, like distributing food and ending war.
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Old 09-28-2018, 04:42 PM
 
Location: New England
37,337 posts, read 28,196,712 times
Reputation: 2744
The very fact that bible fundamentalists( i refuse to tar conservatives with the same brush) are singling out homosexuals (whatever your belief about them is) way above anyone else "they" deem sinners is absolutely despicable. Whoever authorized you to go after them to make sure they knew the bible in the way you read it(with a veil over your eyes)that it condemns them, you are not God and you are not the bible. So leave them alone.

Last edited by pcamps; 09-28-2018 at 04:55 PM..
 
Old 09-28-2018, 05:00 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
22,992 posts, read 10,340,773 times
Reputation: 2318
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
Like David loved Jonathon...

I grieve for you, Jonathan my brother; you were very dear to me. Your love for me was wonderful, more wonderful than that of women.
That doesn't have anything to do with homosexuality, just saying.
 
Old 09-28-2018, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
10,688 posts, read 7,685,010 times
Reputation: 4674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Well, since you had no idea what it is, I am glad I had the opportunity to explain it to you.

You have been edified

PS. You are quoting Google result for "homosexuality". You still have lot to learn little grasshopper.
This from a condescending hypocrite!!
 
Old 09-28-2018, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,298 posts, read 84,311,090 times
Reputation: 114648
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiluvr1228 View Post
First off the Christian Bible says homosexuality is wrong. Secondly my older son told me I was the only parent to go to the memorial for all the people killed in the Orlando nightclub shooting so he certainly doesn't feel that I think he is living his life badly. He has a good job, makes decent money and seems happy. Do I like that he is gay? No. Do I condemn him for it? No, not my job to condemn him or anybody else. Now the other son who is dating a transsexual has made nothing but bad decisions his entire life starting the first time he shot heroin into his veins 16 years ago. So if he feels I think he is living his life badly too flippin' bad. He's welcome to move out any time he can get his act together, find a job and stop relying on me.

I don't care about TV commercials showing interracial relationships, in fact I think it's great and we've come a long way from the Cheerios debacle over their interracial couple a few years ago. I don't love the fact that I have to explain to my young granddaughter why two men or women are kissing on TV. She doesn't need to know about this at her age.

While nobody expects the LGBTQ people to go back in the closet the militant stance that SOME of them have doesn't help them any. And like I said in my previous post. Why aren't I allowed to have MY opinion without being labeled a hater or worse? I would never mistreat a gay person or not hire one who was qualified for a job. I would also go to their defense if they were being abused. But I'M intolerant? Some of them are the intolerant ones. If everybody is supposed to accept their lifestyle why can't they accept they some of us don't agree with it? Does tolerance only go one way?
I think the disconnect here is that you see it as a lifestyle rather than just a feature of a person's individual human self, like skin color or the ability to do algebra. It isn't a choice. It's just a part of who they are.

Addressing the first bolded, it doesn't sound to me as if you're intolerant at all. It sounds as if you've made the choice to do the right thing even though it goes against some beliefs you carry.

Addressing the second bolded, I don't think it's equal. Substitute race for your thinking. In this day and age, we know that nobody else gets to agree or disagree that people are inferior because they are of a different race. It's not a matter that's up for opinion. It simply isn't true.

I think the problem here with gay people who seem intolerant of your position is that it is not up to anyone else to agree or disagree that being gay is wrong. That simply isn't true, either.

Re your granddaughter, "Because they love each other" would be the appropriate answer.

When my daughter was little, we attended a church at which also attended a male couple who had adopted a son and a daughter. The boy was born a crack addict, and he was pretty hyper. My daughter would build her block tower in the nursery on Sunday morning, and Adam would knock it right down. One day she came marching up to me and said, "WHO is Adam's mother?" This was the first time I had a same-sex couple situation brought to her attention, and I said, "Adam doesn't have a mother. He has two dads, see?" and pointed to where the family were standing. She looked over at them, still exasperated, and said, "Well can you PLEASE tell WHOEVER is in charge of Adam to stop knocking down my tower every time I build one?"

I suspect your granddaughter would have as deep a reaction to your response as my daughter did.
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Old 09-28-2018, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Anderson, IN
6,855 posts, read 2,832,448 times
Reputation: 4193
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiluvr1228 View Post
Yep this is it exactly. My oldest son is gay and while I accept him, I don't like it even though he's been out for about 12 years now but he's an adult and can make his own decisions. We accept his SO even though we don't care for him as much as some of his other SO's but that's neither here nor there. The whole family treats both of them with respect and love.


Now yesterday I found out that my younger son (31) is dating a transsexual. She's had the whole works done and looks like a Barbie doll. When I got upset about it he accused me of being close minded. We get accused of being a hater, of being close minded, a hypocrite, everything else because we don't agree with any of this. We have this lifestyle thrown at us from everywhere. I even saw a diamond commercial with two women kissing. We are just supposed to think it's perfectly normal? But why can't the LGBTQ community accept the fact that Christians think homosexuality is wrong? Doesn't mean Christians are going to treat them badly (some will) but why can't we have OUR opinions the same way they have THEIR opinions? Why can't we just agree to disagree and not label each other?


*Edited for spelling

This is about much more than merely an opinion. This is about our lives.
 
Old 09-28-2018, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Anderson, IN
6,855 posts, read 2,832,448 times
Reputation: 4193
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainMusic View Post
Thanks for the link. I will try to get to it later. Moderator cut: Political and not related to thread.

You're welcome!
 
Old 09-28-2018, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,374 posts, read 20,094,900 times
Reputation: 14069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
I think the disconnect here is that you see it as a lifestyle rather than just a feature of a person's individual human self, like skin color or the ability to do algebra. It isn't a choice. It's just a part of who they are.

Addressing the first bolded, it doesn't sound to me as if you're intolerant at all. It sounds as if you've made the choice to do the right thing even though it goes against some beliefs you carry.

Addressing the second bolded, I don't think it's equal. Substitute race for your thinking. In this day and age, we know that nobody else gets to agree or disagree that people are inferior because they are of a different race. It's not a matter that's up for opinion. It simply isn't true.

I think the problem here with gay people who seem intolerant of your position is that it is not up to anyone else to agree or disagree that being gay is wrong. That simply isn't true, either.

Re your granddaughter, "Because they love each other" would be the appropriate answer.

When my daughter was little, we attended a church at which also attended a male couple who had adopted a son and a daughter. The boy was born a crack addict, and he was pretty hyper. My daughter would build her block tower in the nursery on Sunday morning, and Adam would knock it right down. One day she came marching up to me and said, "WHO is Adam's mother?" This was the first time I had a same-sex couple situation brought to her attention, and I said, "Adam doesn't have a mother. He has two dads, see?" and pointed to where the family were standing. She looked over at them, still exasperated, and said, "Well can you PLEASE tell WHOEVER is in charge of Adam to stop knocking down my tower every time I build one?"

I suspect your granddaughter would have as deep a reaction to your response as my daughter did.

Bravo! Too soon, as nearly always.
 
Old 09-28-2018, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Anderson, IN
6,855 posts, read 2,832,448 times
Reputation: 4193
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
The FACT that Christians think homosexuality is wrong? That simply isn't true. There are a number of Christians actively participating in this very thread that see nothing wrong about homosexuality. They attend churches that welcome LGBT people as members and have even conducted their marriage ceremonies in those churches.

Maybe you should have said that you and SOME other Christians think homosexuality is wrong. If I was guessing, I'd guess that your sons sense that you think they are living their lives badly. People tend to pick up on it when their parents disapprove of them.

You saw a commercial that reflects how the world is these days. I've noticed that commercials and TV programming have included mixed race families, gay characters, guys holding hands or kissing, and you saw women buying diamonds for each other. We saw a lady on a Food Network competition that wanted to learn how to cook for her wife. A gay and a lesbian connected on Big Brother because they shared a common interest as members of the LGBT community. It's everywhere because life is like that now. Get used to it. LGBT people are not going back into the closet.

What?! Gay people are just normal people doing normal things??



Is this what disapproving Christians disapprove of? LGT(T) couples holding hands, learning to cook for one another, buying jewelry for one another, leaning on one another for support?
 
Old 09-28-2018, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,877,828 times
Reputation: 1871
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
Bravo! Too soon, as nearly always.
Ya gotta keep tryin' every once in awhile it works
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