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Quote:
Originally Posted by litlestarr View Post
okay I read through the replies, the closest to my feelings is siameseifyoupls. hmmmmm anyhow, I really don't care who people sleep with, but why do they have to force us to like it? just go about your sleeping arrangements and keep quiet. I don't think it's right to beat someone up or kill them because they're gay. If they just leave me alone I'll be delighted to leave them alone. Marriage, no, why not a legal partnership? You can love your partner, and have all the legal rights you want. But back to the Bible Marriage is between man and woman. Result to have children. Why do you have to push yourself on people, plenty of people would be happy to bake you a cake, can't you go to one of them? You make us angry with you. You cheerfully put people out of business if they do not agree with you, that's just not right.
This thread has certainly taken some twists and turns since I made my contribution many posts ago.
I've had a couple of very close gay male friends. It was always understood that they were gay, but their intimate relationships with men were no more a part of our friendship than my intimate relations with my wife. My absolute best friend in college, the guy who led me to Christ, ended up rotting in prison for molesting a little boy. I was astonished beyond words, but I remained as supportive as I could.
I'm not impressed with arguments about what wonderful Christians many gay people are. Many otherwise wonderful Christians are deeply involved in pornography, adultery, pedophilia and other proclivities that are completely inconsistent with a Christian lifestyle. I've battled proclivities of my own for many years, and I know how deeply rooted they can be. I had once assumed that homosexuality was entirely genetic, a matter of birth, but I'm now convinced by the evidence that this isn't true; there may be a genetic component, but there are many other factors that can be addressed in the same way that other destructive proclivities are addressed. Being homosexual isn't like being Black.
The Christian community doesn't celebrate and embrace in the name of tolerance any other form of sexual immorality. We encourage those who are involved in it to deal with it prayerfully and with the help of the Holy Spirit. Tolerance is neither the 11th Commandment nor the highest Christian ideal.
Christians believe that the sexual relations God intended and blesses are those between a man and a woman in the context of a marital union. A homosexual union doesn't meet this definition any more than many other unnatural or non-marital unions I could describe. Moreover, there is solid evidence that homosexual unions aren't the functional equivalent of heterosexual unions in many respects.
I don't hate homosexuals, and neither does God. They don't anger me at all. I have no problem with the law extending to them and their unions all the rights and privileges extended to heterosexual couples if this is what society wants. I do believe that homosexual practices are abhorrent to God. I wouldn't tolerate an unrepentant homosexual in a church leadership position any more than I would tolerate an unrepentant adulterer. I believe homosexuals should strive, prayerfully and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, to overcome their proclivities just as I strive to overcome mine. I don't regard a homosexual union as a marriage and never will. I will not be bludgeoned into celebrating homosexuality in the name of tolerance any more than I will be bludgeoned into celebrating adultery or child molestation.
If those who aren't Christians wish to celebrate homosexuality and regard it as equivalent to heterosexuality in every respect, so be it. This isn't an option for a Christian. Where I think the real battle is talking place isn't in Christians hating or being irrationally angry with homosexuals but in the demand of the gay community and its supporters that Christians abandon their Christian beliefs, or at least shut up, in the name of tolerance.
Warden, you're asking a question that few of them, if any of them, will answer . . .<snip> Post #484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unveiling Bible Truth
Curious, how were you able to justify Lev 18:22 and 20:13 as well as the account of Sodom and Gomorrah?
Do you mean why was I (we) able to easily discount a homosexual connection with the Sodom and Gomorrah story but had problems with Leviticus 18:22 & 20:13? Well, one only has to read (with or without a non-biased mind) every text in the Bible that deals with S&G. They will clearly see that the ONLY place where any possible link to homosexuality might be suggested is with regard to the 'men and the angels' part of the story. And, this part of the story has nothing to do with sexual orientation or to 'homosexual lust' but rather to the intended intimidation of those who are not welcome in the city. Just think Ezekiel 16:49-50 and his 'Sodom=inhospitable' explanation. The Ezekiel text ACTUALLY tells us WHY Sodom was destroyed (NO mention of homosexuality) but many Christians have either not yet caught on or, more likely, they don't want to catch on! It can also be clearly seen that Gomorrah receives hardly any mention regarding 'its sins' but was also allegedly destroyed by God.
As for Leviticus 18:22 & 20:13. None of the so-called commands and prohibitions of the 'Holiness Code' are intended for anyone other than for those to whom they were given. No one today in their right mind (ahem) would attempt to force these particular scriptures on to present-day society. And, they don't ...all except for Leviticus 18:22 & 20:13, that is! But anyway, see post #336 for a further explanation.
This thread has certainly taken some twists and turns since I made my contribution many posts ago.
I've had a couple of very close gay male friends. It was always understood that they were gay, but their intimate relationships with men were no more a part of our friendship than my intimate relations with my wife. My absolute best friend in college, the guy who led me to Christ, ended up rotting in prison for molesting a little boy. I was astonished beyond words, but I remained as supportive as I could.
I'm not impressed with arguments about what wonderful Christians many gay people are. Many otherwise wonderful Christians are deeply involved in pornography, adultery, pedophilia and other proclivities that are completely inconsistent with a Christian lifestyle. I've battled proclivities of my own for many years, and I know how deeply rooted they can be. I had once assumed that homosexuality was entirely genetic, a matter of birth, but I'm now convinced by the evidence that this isn't true; there may be a genetic component, but there are many other factors that can be addressed in the same way that other destructive proclivities are addressed. Being homosexual isn't like being Black.
The Christian community doesn't celebrate and embrace in the name of tolerance any other form of sexual immorality. We encourage those who are involved in it to deal with it prayerfully and with the help of the Holy Spirit. Tolerance is neither the 11th Commandment nor the highest Christian ideal.
Christians believe that the sexual relations God intended and blesses are those between a man and a woman in the context of a marital union. A homosexual union doesn't meet this definition any more than many other unnatural or non-marital unions I could describe. Moreover, there is solid evidence that homosexual unions aren't the functional equivalent of heterosexual unions in many respects.
I don't hate homosexuals, and neither does God. They don't anger me at all. I have no problem with the law extending to them and their unions all the rights and privileges extended to heterosexual couples if this is what society wants. I do believe that homosexual practices are abhorrent to God. I wouldn't tolerate an unrepentant homosexual in a church leadership position any more than I would tolerate an unrepentant adulterer. I believe homosexuals should strive, prayerfully and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, to overcome their proclivities just as I strive to overcome mine. I don't regard a homosexual union as a marriage and never will. I will not be bludgeoned into celebrating homosexuality in the name of tolerance any more than I will be bludgeoned into celebrating adultery or child molestation.
If those who aren't Christians wish to celebrate homosexuality and regard it as equivalent to heterosexuality in every respect, so be it. This isn't an option for a Christian. Where I think the real battle is talking place isn't in Christians hating or being irrationally angry with homosexuals but in the demand of the gay community and its supporters that Christians abandon their Christian beliefs, or at least shut up, in the name of tolerance.
The part where he shifts the blame to the people who want to be left alone, who realize that the only way they can be is to cause their society to recognize that they SHOULD be. What is wrong is that there ARE people who think it is right or appropriate to beat up or even kill gays based on their interpretation of the Bible....and it needs to STOP.
Amen!!! This bears repeating. ANYONE who thinks they have a right to act like God and in any way act against anyone else for what they think is a sin are committing evil. The only actions that can be taken against others in society are those for which we have laws and criminal penalties. We have law enforcement for that purpose. It is NOT up to individual citizens to in any way exact punishment or any other consequence on others no matter WHAT they believe about God. Our obligation is to love God and each other every day and repent when we don't period.
I've battled proclivities of my own for many years, and I know how deeply rooted they can be. I had once assumed that homosexuality was entirely genetic, a matter of birth, but I'm now convinced by the evidence that this isn't true; there may be a genetic component, but there are many other factors that can be addressed in the same way that other destructive proclivities are addressed. Being homosexual isn't like being Black.
.
Anyone who thinks that homosexuality is a choice, could only come to that conclusion if they're attracted to or aroused by the same sex.
Anyone who thinks that homosexuality is a choice, could only come to that conclusion if they're attracted to or aroused by the same sex.
1 Cor 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
It is a choice, just like it was for the people in this scripture.
It's an impulse like everything else, does not mean you have to act on it.
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