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Actually, there is abundant historical evidence of female clergy in the early church. In fact, in Romans, Paul recommends Phoebe to lead the congregation of Roman based on her past work as a deacon, the same title he used for one of the two different church offices in his letters to Timothy.
You are blameless for being ignorant about these things, janelle. The RCC for centuries forbade anyone from even reading the Bible and even today it is not really encouraged. Jesus had female disciples and apostles before His death and after. It was the misogynist Peter who tried to erase them from the church and further hierarchies maligned them.
You are Catholic? Wonder how you know so much and tell me what are all those bible studies at my parish if we are encouraged not to read the bible? LOL I read on here that Paul was misogynist, now Peter?
How many times do you need to be told they do NOT pray TO Mary, Vizio. They ask Mary to pray FOR them. Stop pretending not to see the difference.
I'm afraid I am going to have to respectfully disagree there. They pray to the saints and they pray to the mother Mary.
This may of course be unique to the region I lived in (two regions actually). I live with one and she prays to the mother Mary (I just asked her). And I don't mean just asking the mother Mary to pray for them (which would be a prayer anyway). When someone closes their eyes, holds their hands together in the classic fashion and says; "Holy Mary, mother of God, ... ". That's praying.
nope, "praying" literally means "asking" NOT worship in the sense we give to God. someone asking/"praying to" a saint for help in our prayers to God ("St. Peter and St. Paul pray for me", "holy Mary pray for us") is no different (as far as Catholics and Orthodox are concerned) in no different from say asking another friend in church to pray for us. the folding of hands thing may be regarded simply as a gesture of respect for a special friend of God who lived an heroic Christian life and again not of worship (which belongs ONLY to God). have you specifically asked your friend what "praying to Mary" means to her---do she really and truly believe that Mary or any saint has power IN AND OF THEIR OWN and NOT from God to aid her OR does she REALLY believe essentially what I've suggested and just using "catholic shorthand" for it??? again, the ancient and OFFICIAL teaching on this subject has already been discussed many times---that someone who is nominally Catholic may be either sadly ignorant of the correct doctrine or willfully decides to ignore those teachings is not necessarily the church's fault but that of those who MAY not be doing the right thing
let's take another and similar example---most all churches use the ten commandments as a basic guideline for Christian conduct--the fact that many Christians are ignorant of the "Decalogue" either in general concept or more importantly the moral implications of those commandments in ignore or disobey the various commandments in whole or in part on a regular basis is not necessarily a condemnation of the various Churches who officially teach those commandments but a sad and all too real comment on the ignorance, sinfulness, and lack of charity at least times of their members (sadly probably including you and me) individually and collectively.
Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 09-30-2015 at 08:54 AM..
You can find many Episcopalians who joined the Catholic Church in the "Coming Home" program. Here are some examples on youtube.
You realize, of course, that I can dredge up plenty of examples to make my argument. In truth, the number of Catholic priests becoming Episcopal or Lutheran priests dwarfs the ones you and EWTN desperately want to flog. In the Episcopal Church, we do not really trumpet priests leaving the Catholic fold for us. I guess it's because we're not dealing with a chronic priest shortage the way you are:
In my diocese alone, I personally know four separate priests who were formerly Catholic, but couldn't reconcile their love of God with Catholic theology. On another note, I think it's kind of strange that the Catholic church is so willing to compromise its own values by allowing former Episcopal priests to enjoy all the benefits of marriage, while denying it to the poor priests who took a vow of lifelong celibacy. Essentially, every time you post one of those videos, you're essentially publicizing the fact that the Catholic church has hosed those clergy who have followed its rules.
In Timothy, there were only two church offices identified: Bishop and Deacon. Phoebe was identified as serving as a deacon. He also used the term prostatis or overseer, the term used in the early church for those administering the eucharist. In Philemon 2, he mentions Apphia as leader of a house church, as well as Prisca in Corinthian 1, Lydia in Acts 16, and Nympha in Colossans 4.
Outside scripture, Pliny the Younger describes his discussions with two separate women who were deacons or ministrae in their local Christian communities. In the Didascalia, women deacons were clearly described as presiding over baptisms and providing eucharist. And in Titus, mention is made of women holding the function of church elders. Cyprian mentions women in Asia Minor who baptized and celebrated Eucharist and Gelasius describes a plentitude of ordained women in Sicily and Italy in the fifth century.
When I was growing up in the early 80s, we called Episcopal "Catholic Lite." All the religion with a 1/3 less quilt.
And wherever there's four, there's a Fifth.
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