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A few questions for Christians only, starting with a poll to get going. Thanks.
A few things I'm curious about:
I get the impression that there are a growing number of Christians who no longer believe in the idea of hell but still believe in heaven. I'm happy to accept I might wrong about that, but it's just the impression I get from people on this forum.
If it is the case, that you believe in heaven but not hell, I'd like to understand what your justification would be for that? Because didn't Jesus himself believe in the idea of hell?
Also I'd like to understand - if you do still believe in heaven, what form does that take?
I ask because I saw an atheist derided on here once for thinking that Christians believe heaven is 'in the clouds'. I'm really not being facetious here, just that when I read that, that's genuinely what I also thought was the case - that Christians believe that the 'heavens' are somehow in the sky. So if not in the sky, then where?
If you don't believe in either heaven or hell or have another viewpoint, I'd like to hear about that too.
I hope people know me well enough to know I'm not here to make fun, I just want to better understand what Christians current perceptions of these issues are.
Do you believe a poll of opinions has any effect on whether or not the doctrine is true?
No of course not. That's a funny thing to say.
For one thing this is only ever going to be a very small sample of people, so of course it is not going to represent the whole of Christianity, but might offer a flavor.
Christianity it seems to me is changing and some of my perceptions may be outdated. I'd like to explore that.
Also what I believe to be true isn't really relevant in this discussion, since as you know I'm an atheist. But I'm interested to find out what other people believe.
For one thing this is only ever going to be a very small sample of people, so of course it is not going to represent the whole of Christianity, but might offer a flavor.
Christianity it seems to me is changing and some of my perceptions may be outdated. I'd like to explore that.
Also what I believe to be true isn't really relevant in this discussion, since as you know I'm an atheist. But I'm interested to find out what other people believe.
So then the question should be what is the truth? What does the bible say?
The Bible teaches Heaven, and it teaches Hell. Both exist.
If you don't believe in either heaven or hell or have another viewpoint, I'd like to hear about that too.
Heaven and hell, appear to be two inflectional points of an apparent path or journey that all living things encounter called life and death. Unfortunately, the Pinnacle of Sin and Death has become the highest culminating point of man’s Religion. He has no problem condemning, himself and others, instead of living life to its fullest.
So then the question should be what is the truth? What does the bible say?
The Bible teaches Heaven, and it teaches Hell. Both exist.
Yes you actually make a good point and I guess that's where I'm coming from. You are consistent Vizio I give you that.
I'm not sure I understand why, if you believe in heaven, why wouldn't you also believe in hell, since don't both ideas originate from the same source?
I'm wondering if some people view them as a sort of a symbolic thing these days? If so what would that be?
A few questions for Christians only, starting with a poll to get going. Thanks.
A few things I'm curious about:
I get the impression that there are a growing number of Christians who no longer believe in the idea of hell but still believe in heaven. I'm happy to accept I might wrong about that, but it's just the impression I get from people on this forum.
If it is the case, that you believe in heaven but not hell, I'd like to understand what your justification would be for that? Because didn't Jesus himself believe in the idea of hell?
Also I'd like to understand - if you do still believe in heaven, what form does that take?
I ask because I saw an atheist derided on here once for thinking that Christians believe heaven is 'in the clouds'. I'm really not being facetious here, just that when I read that, that's genuinely what I also thought was the case - that Christians believe that the 'heavens' are somehow in the sky. So if not in the sky, then where?
If you don't believe in either heaven or hell or have another viewpoint, I'd like to hear about that too.
I hope people know me well enough to know I'm not here to make fun, I just want to better understand what Christians current perceptions of these issues are.
Thanks.
As a former Christian, I did believe in both heaven and hell up until about 10 years ago. As a believer in the doctrine of eternal torment, I studied the bible to refute the doctrine of Christian Universalism, which ironically led me to a belief in it.
I no longer believed in "eternal hell" but did believe in "age-enduring correction". In other words, I believed that after people physically died we would all be confronted with whatever separation we felt from others and God because of any sin in our lives that had not been repented of and overcome, and through that process would come to repentance, a belief in Jesus, and an acceptance of God's love and forgiveness for those areas of our lives. Once received, that love and forgiveness would continue (or begin) the process of our transformation that would bring us all into unity with God and each other. The "Kingdom of Heaven" was not a place, in my understanding, but was rather about that state of unity.
Faith in most of the other Christian dogma and the "belief in Jesus" bit was stripped from me some years later. I still consider it sensible that IF God is love, the doctrine of eternal torment is a horrendous and twisted lie, and the doctrine of Universal Reconciliation would be far closer to truth.
Heaven and hell, appear to be two inflectional points of an apparent path or journey that all living things encounter called life and death. Unfortunately, the Pinnacle of Sin and Death has become the highest culminating point of man’s Religion. He has no problem condemning, himself and others, instead of living life to its fullest.
Thanks, I don't know if you could elaborate on that at all?
Are you saying that you see our time on this earth as inclusive of heaven and hell? That it is sort of here and now? If so I can get that I think although I've never been great with symbolism.
I have to go now and get back to the discussion later, but it would be great if you could expand on this.
Thanks.
Heaven or some version of it, yes. Hell, not so sure.
While I was raised in an eternal torment denomination, I studied alternatives (such as annihilationism). Jesus made a comment that could be interpreted as being destroyed, rather than non-destruction and never ending torment.
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