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Old 02-01-2008, 11:04 AM
 
479 posts, read 714,131 times
Reputation: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
I understand that.

I think I am having a hard time understanding what the 'bottom line' is that SeekerSA is trying to make.

The more I read the long post he made on this subject, the more my mind says "Well, that's not what the bible teaches"

Again, I may just be missing something.

Ya'll help me understand.
I only responded to the relevant stuff in his post. The stuff I didn't agree with I left out.. Cuts to the heart of the matter. Focus on the Truth and be Wise to good, simple to evil. Part of being a servant of the Lord, is also not showing partiality to anyone - and trying to be fair to all sides when they oppose their positions.. I've found there's sometimes a gold nugget of information from everyone I've engaged in discussions with. Seekers nugget was to Focus on God. That's the best advice out of everything everyone's posted thus far.

God bless,

Stephen

 
Old 02-01-2008, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Hot-Houston Texas
19,977 posts, read 19,677,039 times
Reputation: 27961
Quote:
Originally Posted by simpleton View Post
No biggy in that it has no effect on him. But it has a big effect on us. Which is why he wants us to not sin, he knows what it will do to us. It ain't gonna do nothing to God though..
I disagree, I believe it grieves Him when when sin because when we hurt, He hurts and sin puts a wedge between us and God and this hurts Him.
 
Old 02-01-2008, 11:24 AM
 
479 posts, read 714,131 times
Reputation: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
I disagree, I believe it grieves Him when when sin because when we hurt, He hurts and sin puts a wedge between us and God and this hurts Him.
Agreed. Thanks for that additional clarification.
 
Old 02-01-2008, 11:41 AM
 
3,086 posts, read 3,813,948 times
Reputation: 956
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
I think I am having a hard time understanding what the 'bottom line' is that SeekerSA is trying to make.
Me too.

What about this verse..
Ezekial 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
 
Old 02-01-2008, 11:50 AM
 
Location: South Africa
5,352 posts, read 3,199,986 times
Reputation: 1623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207 View Post
I understand that.

I think I am having a hard time understanding what the 'bottom line' is that SeekerSA is trying to make.

The more I read the long post he made on this subject, the more my mind says "Well, that's not what the bible teaches"

Again, I may just be missing something.

Ya'll help me understand.
Although some have dismissed this out of hand, it comes as no surprise. A different approach is usually difficult to grasp at first. I did not suck this out of my thumb.

You have also asked on atonement aka the sacrifice, that is where this will lead to eventually.

There is no bottom line, you seek agenda where there is none. If anything it is redirecting focus.

Blessings
 
Old 02-01-2008, 12:07 PM
 
Location: South Africa
5,352 posts, read 3,199,986 times
Reputation: 1623
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
I disagree, I believe it grieves Him when when sin because when we hurt, He hurts and sin puts a wedge between us and God and this hurts Him.
I have addressed this many times here already.

The perception is that we think we drive a wedge in and that is not true. Furthermore, how do you know what does and does not hurt God? Seems to me the God you know is very human. Does it pain Him when we sin? No. What pains Him is the burden we place upon ourselves.

When we are unfaithful, does that change who He is?

It is your guilt that separates you, nothing else. All you are seeing is "sin is OK" That is not the message.

His forgiveness is not dependant on our repentance. If that were so then how do you account for:

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.

The reason we repent is for us, not Him. We are egocentric, not God.

One of the fruits of the tree of KoG&E is ego another name for flesh. God is not man. His ways are not our ways, He is not a man that He should lie.

If we are told He remembers our sin no more, casts them into the sea of forgetfulness, separates our sin as far as the east is from the west, why do you see sin as such a huge issue?

The Jews in Jesus' day had the exact same problem.

While sin remains your focus, it cannot and will not go away.

Walk away from the wrong tree.

The law is death, sin is death. In the LIGHT, darkness must flee.

Blessings

Last edited by SeekerSA; 02-01-2008 at 12:32 PM..
 
Old 02-01-2008, 12:07 PM
 
337 posts, read 540,468 times
Reputation: 343
Sin Is Something That Hurts The Sinner And Our Lord.
 
Old 02-01-2008, 12:12 PM
 
479 posts, read 714,131 times
Reputation: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by JANA MANIA View Post
Sin Is Something That Hurts The Sinner And Our Lord.
Agreed. We're really getting down to basics here now. You forgot your caps though..

In Christian Love,

Stephen
 
Old 02-01-2008, 12:26 PM
 
Location: South Africa
5,352 posts, read 3,199,986 times
Reputation: 1623
Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
Me too.


What about this verse..
Ezekial 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Amen. And what highlights your sin? The law. Does the law change sin? No. Where does your help come from? The law or from God?

Your emphasis is tradition biased. Try this:

Ezekial 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

When you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change

Bias is is a rotten thing. Do you see God as biased?

How then does He cause the rain to fall on both the just and the unjust?

There is a script I posted but not on this thread, I may find it tomorrow and post it.

If sin was eradicated though Jesus, the traditional teachings would be true. That we all know is not the case.

Blessings
 
Old 02-01-2008, 12:28 PM
 
Location: South Africa
5,352 posts, read 3,199,986 times
Reputation: 1623
Quote:
Originally Posted by JANA MANIA View Post
Sin Is Something That Hurts The Sinner And Our Lord.
It hurts the sinner yes, the Lord?

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