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I am hoping God uses my posts to speak directly to your conscience - and/or someone else who reads this stuff.
DRob, you asked a question in regard to my post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo
Propitiation.
If propitiation in this passage is what the majority of Christianity teaches it is, than John's idea of what it meant when he also wrote "God IS love" is nothing like what Paul meant when he defined love in 1 Cor 13.
Love and the need for a human sacrifice to appease wrath are in no way compatible. "I, LOVE, am patient, kind, keep no record of wrongs, and never fail, but if you sin somebody has to suffer horribly in order to make Me feel better! Believe it or else! "
Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC
With regards to the sacrifice... What if it's true?
You have admitted that you cannot explain why it would be true ... simply that you believe it is, in spite of the fact that it doesn't make sense. If God is using your posts, it may very well be to highlight the self-contradictory nature of your beliefs, and the need to firmly avoid examining them if you want to hold on to them.
Here is the crux of it, Pleroo. Since the earliest records, primitive humans believed that God needed to be appeased by blood sacrifices.
It is a primitive meme that has persisted because it was incorrectly applied to interpret Christ's voluntary submission to the savagery and brutality of our ignorant ancestors.
He willingly suffered their savagery to show that God IS agape love . . .
NOT wrathful or vengeful. Despite horrendous scourging and crucifixion, He smote no one because God wants mercy NOT sacrifice.
This is the problem with these absurd beliefs, Pleroo, they are accepted as mysteries because God cannot be understood by mere mortals.
This is how they create jargon to explain absurdities like the Trinity, or Hell as an eternal torment by a loving God, or the savagery and barbarity attributed to God in the OT.
All in all, this attempt to merge the primitive OT beliefs about God with Christ's revelations and Gospel is an impossible belief system....
Applause. Bravo.
And may I remind Bible readers...in Jeremiah 9...but he who does boast, let him boast of this...
that he knows and understands me, so saith the Lord.
We can understand the Mind of God.
And I can say, with His full backing and blessing...He never needed or wanted any blood
sacrifice of anything, ever...nor frankincense!
What He longs for is love... that is from Him ...that didn't come from 'me'.
He doesn't beat it out of you or torture you for it or want your bloody sacrifices, either.
If you sacrifice coffee, or you fast...it is for you, to help your focus...He wants your love, your
attention, acknowledgement ... not blood spilled by anyone...or thinking He wants that.
Again, it's "Toss the Virgin into the Volcano" mentality...
"Cut a living heart out and take a bite" thinking!!
(I can only hope one person tilts his head like my doggy and goes,"What? You mean
all this is made up and God always loved us and isn't into punishing us?"
...snip... I am hoping God uses my posts to speak directly to your conscience - and/or someone else who reads this stuff.
My hope is that lurkers read your posts and those of other fundamentalists and realize that is a path no empathetic, rational, educated person would care to tread.
Gotta remember... 1 Corinthians 2:14 - a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
Exactly, I agree, totally and have seen it many times...they are foolishness to them! Indeed.
I could not ever again think that killing a goat to appease an angry God in the Sky has
anything to do
with Spirit, the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, the Divine in any way what-so-ever.
Christianity being based on faith says a mouthful.
Faith 2000 years ago for people that could not comprehend, yes.
It is a different day.
The human race is waking up to much deeper Truths, more understanding...
as Jesus said in the dramatic scene of knowing what was about to happen: There is so much I want to tell you , but you cannot bear it now.*
His own disciples that saw him turn into pure light*...there were things they could still not understand. Small minds back then.
Not any more...we are waking up.
*John16:12 at the Last Supper
*Mark 9 the Transfiguration
You have admitted that you cannot explain why it would be true ... simply that you believe it is, in spite of the fact that it doesn't make sense. If God is using your posts, it may very well be to highlight the self-contradictory nature of your beliefs, and the need to firmly avoid examining them if you want to hold on to them.
Some things I understand and do make sense, some things I don't understand (which is DIFFERENT than saying they don't make sense - I just lack understanding).
The adversary will want me to lean on my own understanding. God wants me to trust Him.
Proverbs 3:5-6 - Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding. 6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight.
Some things I understand and do make sense, some things I don't understand (which is DIFFERENT than saying they don't make sense - I just lack understanding). The adversary will want me to lean on my own understanding. God wants me to trust Him.
Proverbs 3:5-6 - Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding. 6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight.
And I'll keep pointing out that there is a difference between something being beyond your current capabilities to understand, and something being self-contradictory and nonsensical. We are discussing something here that falls into the latter category.
And I'll keep pointing out that there is a difference between something being beyond your current capabilities to understand, and something being self-contradictory and nonsensical. We are discussing something here that falls into the latter category.
Ps. Believing nonsensical dogma /= trusting God.
1 Corinthians 1:18 - For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing
Personally, I try not to let these discussions become about winning and losing.
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