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In the Creation story we're told that a day consisted of an evening (12-hours) and a morning (12-hours). So, for those who believe the Creation story (most Christians?) it's pretty clear that 'a day' was a literal 24-hour period.
Again, if we're to take the Creation story as being a literal account there is no guesswork involved here. A day was a 24-hour period, i.e. the earth completing a rotation on its axis.
Not ONE day but precisely the 7th-day! The completion of the weekly cycle.
I don't think we need to complicate this any more than we already have. What does the 4th-command of the Big Ten say? This is aimed at those Christians who are such sticklers when it comes to 'pointing out the sins' of others while on the other hand they BLATANTLY thumb their nose at "God" EACH WEEK by ignoring a major command.
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Originally Posted by katzpur
Whatever.
No. We don't shrug this off with a 'whatever'.
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Originally Posted by katzpur
You obviously take every word in the Bible to be literal.
No, I don't, actually. But, other Christians DO (albeit they cherry-pick) and they often take passages of scripture SO literally - and often misinterpreted passages at that! - to cast judgment on others. One of the first things I ask a professed Christian who uses the texts in Leviticus to condemn gay people is, "Do you keep the 4th-commandment?" My point being (knowing pretty much in advance that they DON'T keep the 4th-command) that they are hypocrites and should be called out accordingly. That said, I'm also here to make an argument for this particular doctrine of the Seventh-day Adventist Church since it's a valid one.
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Originally Posted by katzpur
If God really did create the earth in six 24-hour days, then the seventh day would be Saturday (provided there were never any mistakes in the calendar from that moment forward). Most of us believe that the creation story is not to be taken literally.
I personally have not come across many Christians that don't believe the Creation story. I don't believe it to be literal, however. I realize that this sounds contradictory of me but I AM playing the devil's advocate here in that the Creation story IS to be taken literally and that most Christians believe it to be a literal account.
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Originally Posted by katzpur
Furthermore, just because people don't believe exactly as you do, that doesn't mean they're "blatantly thumbing their noses at God." Try to be a little less judgmental. Not all decent people believe exactly the same way.
The people that I refer to as 'thumbing their nose at God' are those who use the Bible to condemn others on other issues such as homosexuality and gay marriage but yet don't honor the 4th-command.
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Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
I don't follow.
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Originally Posted by katzpur
Don't worry. I'm not surprised.
A bit of unnecessary mockery, don'tch think? I clarified why I said that in my continuing statement.
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Originally Posted by RomulusXXV
Why would God be upset that Mormons in Jerusalem are keeping the 7th-day Sabbath as asked of them?
And, it was this, of course, as being the reason why I said, "I don't follow."
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Originally Posted by katzpur
He wouldn't. And he wouldn't be upset that the Mormons everywhere else in the world are keeping the Sabbath on a different day of the week.
How on earth can anyone be keeping a different Sabbath? There is only one.
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Originally Posted by katzpur
God's get a lot more seriously concerns than which day we go to church on.
How do you know ...does God tell you this? Let me direct you back to the 4th-command which is where I started.
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Originally Posted by katzpur
And do you know what I think He wants?
Please tell . . .
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Originally Posted by katzpur
I think He wants us to keep His commandments as we understand them -- not as somebody else understands them.
So, what's not to understand about the 4th-command?
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Originally Posted by katzpur
Seriously, Romulus, you seem to be getting pretty worked up here.
Well, when people come on here with blatant lies about a Christian denomination that I once belonged to for more than 20 years ...yes, I do have a tendency to get a tad hot under the collar. Don't you get that with your Mormon beliefs?
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Originally Posted by katzpur
Trust me, I know how it feels to be the only person who believes one thing when everybody else believes something else.
Okay, I guess that pretty much answers my previous question.
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Originally Posted by katzpur
My advise to you when you feel like everybody's ganging up on you is to remember what Mother Theresa once said: "In the end, it's between you and God. It never was between you and them anyway."
Okay, but I'll need to firstly run that suggestion by cupper . . .
So, teaching children from an early age that, if they don't believe in God, they will be tormented forever and ever in hell is not crazy? Would you be more comfortable with ...insane?
Yes, I did say 'probably'. I studied with the SDAs back in the mid 1980s and actually joined the church in 1988. Since then, however, I've pretty much given up on organized religion in general. I attend no church at present. I was most impressed with the wealth of knowledge that SDAs have with regard to the Bible, with history and its link to the Bible, etc. etc. These folks have really done their homework and I appreciate that.
So, just curious...what is your take on Ellen White? Was she an authentic "prophet", or were her "visions" the product of a seizure disorder (due to being hit in the head with a rock). Also, while bedridden, she earned money for her family making hats...she was exposed to mercury, which was used in manufacturing hats in those days (that's where the term "mad as a hatter" came from by the way) which could have caused insanity and contributed to her delusions. There's also the plagiarism claim, which I am sure you've heard about because it's all over the internet. I learned a lot about the SDA's, because DH's family were/are all in the church and they tried really hard to convert me. It didn't work.
None of my business, really, but how did you get roped into it? When you mentioned you studied with the SDA's, did you attend a "bait and switch" prophecy seminar? You know, with the colorful thought provoking brochures that don't identify the church/religion sponsoring the seminar. DH's sisters both roped their husbands into it (both husbands were Catholic) after attending the seminars and they fell for it. One quit soon after being baptized, the other went on to become an SDA minister. DH attended a couple sessions to get his nagging father off his back, and had quite the opposite take ("this bull s**t never changes"). DH isn't a Christian (doubt if he ever really was) and is pretty much an atheist.
What caused YOU to leave? DH went along with being baptized, put through SDA boarding school (which he hated), and left the church permanently once he moved out of his parents' house and they couldn't tell him what to believe any more or force him to remain an Adventist, but they didn't give up easily. Then he married me, and it was a lost cause. They thought they could persuade me to join, and thus rope him back in, but I'm very cynical. I have a distrust of any religion, period. Plus, I hate all those rules and especially the food (that vegetarian fake meat sucks). No meat, coffee, chocolate, Pepsi, booze, movies, makeup...and the sundown to sundown sabbath where you spend half the day in church, and the rest avoiding "worldly" (aka fun) activities. We tried not to spend Saturdays with them.
There is a Podcast DH enjoys listening to called Seventh Day Atheist. It's a weekly show to give ex-members an outlet to rant about and discuss experiences in the church and abuses (lots of those) from their upbringing. I like to listen because it helps me understand some of the dynamics of DH's family and the quirks DH still has at age 60 as a result of his upbringing.
Last edited by Mrs. Skeffington; 11-07-2015 at 09:46 AM..
Yeah, Mormons score almost as high as atheists. Which score higher than any of the Christian adherents.
There are atheists who are very knowledgeable about the Bible. My daughter listens to a podcast in which the Bible is studied from an atheist's point of view, more as literature than anything else. For an atheist, she knows more about the Bible than I do (and I had 10 years of Sunday School and two years of catechism class).
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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Originally Posted by Mrs. Skeffington
There are atheists who are very knowledgeable about the Bible. My daughter listens to a podcast in which the Bible is studied from an atheist's point of view, more as literature than anything else. For an atheist, she knows more about the Bible than I do (and I had 10 years of Sunday School and two years of catechism class).
There is a lot of picking and choosing that goes on in catechism classes. I had to sit through them for years. I always wondered who came up with stories that belonged in Mother Goose or Aesops tales. Even back then.
Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight
Acts 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.
Acts 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat [food] with gladness and singleness of heart,
1 Cor 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.
this verse debunks SDAs on sabbath keeping for christians.
Verses 1-2 show what the context of the passage is about. Romans 14 (NKJV)
14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6
Romans 14:5 is referring to fasting and not judging each other on what days they chose, as the Sabbath isnt a topic in the entire book of Romans, so ROm 14:5 is not saying it doesnt matter what day you choose as a Sabbath.
Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight
Acts 5:42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.
Acts 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat [food] with gladness and singleness of heart,
1 Cor 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
In Acts 20:7, you will notice Paul spoke until midnight, so its clear "And upon the first day of the week" he came to them Saturday night after the sun went down and the Sabbath ended and spoke until midnight on the 1st day of the week. This verse is not saying Paul met with them on a Sunday morning and then spoke to them for 18 hours until midnight.
No matter how many verse we can find, they still kept the Sabbath before and after the cross.
In Acts 20:7, you will notice Paul spoke until midnight, so its clear "And upon the first day of the week" he came to them Saturday night after the sun went down and the Sabbath ended and spoke until midnight on the 1st day of the week. This verse is not saying Paul met with them on a Sunday morning and then spoke to them for 18 hours until midnight.
No matter how many verse we can find, they still kept the Sabbath before and after the cross.
nowhere does it say they met on saturday night. that is a cop out and an excuse use by sabbath christians
you also contradict yourself when you use the saturday night excuse. according to sabbath keepers a day started at sunset and end at sunset 24 hrs later. using this logic meeting on saturday night is meeting on sunday. you can't have it both ways
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