The SINGLE Verse That Should Make EVERY Christian Doubt the Bible (Moses, Christ)
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Now let's make sure we've got this straight: the Bible is inerrant. That means that it is God talking DIRECTLY to humanity, not James. It is God Himself making this promise to men,
The language couldn't be more simple and direct and there's no smokescreen "context" that apologists can hide behind. It's an ironclad promise from God to His children that if His children pray to Him in faith, the person they are praying for will be cured and made well.
Down through 2000 years how many millions of Christians have done EXACTLY as the Lord commanded and prayed in faith only to see their beloved children die in misery and agony??????
Can there be any more convincing proof that the Bible is a fraud---that God DOES NOT keep His promises? Remember, if one promise in the Bible fails, then the whole Bible fails. It cannot be the Divine Word of God. It can be a good book for some helpful advice here and there like any other religious text, but it CANNOT be God's inspired Word, as fundamentalists love to claim.
Back then the apostles are given the ability to heal. Can you still find an apostle around today?
it might be better to read that you are presented a story, a parable, to us, even if presented as..."Gospel Truth," to use a little pun there, in which these Apostles are given this seemingly miraculous ability, which one might interpret into their walk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius
...and yet I have already said and more than once, that I will accept any verifiable evidence for your the existence of your god that you have...but you produce nothing. Where is this 'truth' that you claim?
yes, so iow you will accept the impossible, as long as it is served on a plate to you (iow, you do not have to commit to anything), and you don't have to even extend yourself so far as to posit a clear question for reflection on the matter (which would be perceived as a commitment), or in fact even choose one of two multiple choice questions that might accurately reflect your desire to pursue truth, which of course no one can "prove" to you--short of a "miracle" (thus putting you in the unenviable position of being susceptible to miracles; you, an unbeliever, while i, who am nominally a believer {even if that characterization will give you the wrong impression}, am immune to miracles, per se, eschew them, iow, and would be quite suspicious by what you might term a "miracle," for reasons plainly stated in the Book)--but which you can only be brought to see--possibly, if you even desire such a thing, which wadr you have demonstrated that you do not, in your choices, which i have no desire to abrogate, despite my multiple attempts to apparently try and do so, those stemming strictly by way of acknowledgement that i am a w **** and a murderer, too, you see, and so i understand--by yourself, your own reasoning, which after all comes on the wind, so to speak, only to you.
OMG!!!!!! LOL. I just took a closer look at your "proof source". It's off a blog called Miracle of the Saints whose description is (holding back the tears...of laughter):
Quote:
This website is devoted to the extraordinary miracles of God in the lives of the Saints including examples of Stigmata, Prophecy, Remarkable Cures, Bilocation, Heavenly voices from the afterlife, Levitation, Prolonged Fasts, Mystical Knowledge, Scourging and the Crown of Thorns, Speaking in Tongues, Incorrupt Bodies, and Miracles over nature along with many others. The author endeavors always to be faithful to the Catholic Church and its teachings.
If that's the best you can do in the evidence department no wonder Christianity is in such deep trouble.
You can repeat it until you're blue in the face, it doesn't change the fact
that Jesus Christ, His Holy Apostles and thousands of Saints and laypersons
have been miraculously healed.
That's not a fact, it's a belief.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbyrd009
yes, so iow you will accept the impossible, as long as it is served on a plate to you, and you don't have to extend yourself so far as to posit a clear question for reflection on the matter, or in fact even choose one of two multiple choice questions that might accurately reflect your desire to pursue truth, which of course no one can "prove" to you--short of a "miracle" (thus putting you in the unenviable position of being susceptible to miracles; you, an unbeliever, while i, who am nominally a believer {even if that characterization will give you the wrong impression}, am immune to miracles, per se, eschew them, iow, and would be quite suspicious by what you might term a "miracle," for reasons plainly stated in the Book)--but which you can only be brought to see, possibly, if you even desire such a thing, which wadr you have demonstrated that you do not, in your choices, which i have no desire to abrogate, despite my multiple attempts to apparently try and do so, those stemming strictly by way of acknowledgement that i am a w **** and a murderer, too, you see, and so i understand.
I've explained it to you three times now. If you don't get it yet then you never will.
Quote:
hopefully that clears things up.
Nothing you say is likely to 'clear things up' due to your inability to speak in coherent sentences.
Actually an early poster had it right. The word "sick/ill" in this verse is a word meaning weary not physically ill. Anyone with a little knowledge of Biblical Greek and a good lexicon can find this out.
Friberg Greek Lexicon: 14864 ka,mnw 2aor. e;kamon; be weary; idiomatically ka,mnein th|/ fuch| literally be weary in soul, i.e. be discouraged (HE 12.3); be sick or ill (JA 5.15)
UBS: 3214 ka,mnw (aor. subj. 2 pl. ka,mhte) be sick; evn yuch/| kÃ… be discouraged (He 12.3)
Liddell-Scott Greek Lexicon (Koine Greek): III. intr. to work, labour, Thuc.:-then, to be weary, avndri. de. kekmhw/ti me,noj oi=noj ave,xei Il.; ouvde, ti gui/a ka,mnei nor is he weary in limb, Ib.; peri. dV e;gcei? cei/ra kamei/tai he will have his hand weary in grasping the spear, Ib.:-c. part., ka,mnei polemi,zwn( evlau,nwn is weary of fighting, rowing, Ib.; ouvk e;kamon tanu,wn I found no trouble in stringing the bow, i.e. did it without trouble, Od.; ou;toi kamou/mai le,gousa I shall never be tired of saying, Aesch., etc.
Thayer's Greek Lexicon: 1. to grow weary, be weary
While the word can convey physical sickness the context must be clear that it is not just someone worn out or weary with daily life which is the basic meaning.
Trill has no real knowledge of the Bible, the Biblical languages and meanings, so accepts anything he believes is a negative about the Bible without really having an understanding of what is said. Not uncommon.
Trill has no real knowledge of the Bible, the Biblical languages and meanings, so accepts anything he believes is a negative about the Bible without really having an understanding of what is said. Not uncommon.
Odd isn't it, that a book that is supposed to be so important to our 'salvation' requires a knowledge of biblical Greek and ancient Hebrew to understand it. One would have thought that it would be such a simple task for an omnimax deity to furnish us with it in a language that each of us understand.
thus verifying that you refuse to accept the point, and do not understand "so seeing they will not see," and the lesson that goes with it, which is whispering directly to you, Raf. wadr.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius
I've explained it to you three times now. If you don't get it yet then you never will.
yet it was you that had the question--"Do you have any?"--but here you are explaining, to me. still.
Odd isn't it, that a book that is supposed to be so important to our 'salvation' requires a knowledge of biblical Greek and ancient Hebrew to understand it. One would have thought that it would be such a simple task for an omnimax deity to furnish us with it in a language that each of us understand.
John 20:29
Jesus said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."
If there was a self-publishing, self-translating Bible, at first you might think, oh, that would prove everything, people would have to accept the Bible as inspired and inerrant and God as sovereign, then.
BUT, then if I think about all the ways we do know that God exists -- my goodness, the Holy Spirit indwells believers individually, that's pretty convincing, I'd say, not to mention all the historical evidence and billions of powerful testimonies and changed lives -- and it made me think, well, there's probably never going to be enough proof to convince some people.
If such a Bible did exist, who's to say that scoffers and mockers wouldn't just ascribe it to black magic or science or an illusion or a hoax or some other incorrect interpretation? I guess it all gets back to the point that God provides ample evidence of His existence...and even if He did go around providing every requested form of ID all the world over every day...some people would still choose not to believe.
I have to imagine as a convicted non-believer, that you would actually agree with me. If you woke up tomorrow and saw on the news was a report about a new discovery of a self-publishing, self-translating Bible, would you to immediately accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? Or would you continue to wonder/question/be skeptical/not believe what you've chosen not to believe so strongly for so long?
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