Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I don't need the article and I don't need Wikipedia. All credible theologians and historians accept that today's celebration of Christmas is a conglomeration of pagan and Christian ritual. Most people agree that Jesus was born sometime in September.
Personally, I love it all. The pagan parts, the Victorian through mid century traditions, the Nordic, Germanic and other European traditions.
Like it or not, Christmas is a wonderfully joyous polyglot of traditions! The birth of Christ and church attendance are central to me, as a Christian, but I, and many others, enjoy the pagan parts, as well.
There are also people who celebrate Christmas as a cultural holiday.
It's all good.
From the pagan parts, to the Victorian parts, then as one person assessed it that ' White Christmas ' changed the Victorian parts to the Currier and Ives pictorial parts, besides having other cultural or national parts as well.
So, the non-biblical Saturnalia blended with the biblical account of Jesus' birth still mixes both or equals Christnalia.
The non-biblical mixed with Scripture, and mixed with non-Christian origin, still shows God did Not originate it.
Sure Christmas is fun. Who would celebrate it if it meant something like sticking pins up and down you arms ?
I see you didn't read the article as well. Elizabeth was in her 6th month when Mary want to visit her and that was in the spring so Jesus was born 9 months or so later putting His birth on Dec. 25th.
Where does it say that it was spring time when she went to visit Elizabeth?...
It does say that when Jesus was turning 12 years old that the family went up to Jerusalem to observe the Passover, which is around March - April timeframe...So, that would put his birth around Spring Time and not the Winter...It is right there in Black & White...
Luk 2:41 And his parents were going yearly to Jerusalem, at the feast of the passover,
Luk 2:42 and when he became twelve years old, they having gone up to Jerusalem, according to the custom of the feast,
Last edited by Richard1965; 12-15-2015 at 05:01 PM..
Because it's usually true. Christmas was Yule. They moved it to December because the solstice was a good waiting period for advent.
wouldn't that be the other way around since Advent (a special period of religious preparation and waiting for the solemn feast of the Incarnation/birth of Christ (Christmas) in both the eastern and western Church traditionally consisting of prayer, penance, and works of charity) begins almost 4 weeks BEFORE the winter solstice (and of course the holy day/holiday under discussion is celebrated several days AFTER the solstice)?
Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 12-15-2015 at 08:01 PM..
Reason: more info.
Where does it say that it was spring time when she went to visit Elizabeth?...
It does say that when Jesus was turning 12 years old that the family went up to Jerusalem to observe the Passover, which is around March - April timeframe...So, that would put his birth around Spring Time and not the Winter...It is right there in Black & White...
Luk 2:41 And his parents were going yearly to Jerusalem, at the feast of the passover,
Luk 2:42 and when he became twelve years old, they having gone up to Jerusalem, according to the custom of the feast,
Jesus was 33 and 1/3 years old when he died on Passover, so go forward 6 months, which would bring you to his birthday, and it brings you right to the Feats of Tabernacles, which makes sense as, he would have been born on the 1st day and circumcised on the 8th day of this Feast. The one born during the spring was John the baptist, who was born on Passover.
*[[Deu 16:16]] WEB* Three times in a year all of your males shall appear before Yahweh your God in the place which he chooses: in the feast of unleavened bread, in the feast of weeks, and in the feast of booths. They shall not appear before Yahweh empty.
wouldn't that be the other way around since Advent (a special period of religious preparation and waiting for the solemn feast of the Incarnation/birth of Christ (Christmas) in both the eastern and western Church traditionally consisting of prayer, penance, and works of charity) begins almost 4 weeks BEFORE the winter solstice (and of course the holy day/holiday under discussion is celebrated several days AFTER the solstice)?
We moved it because Yule was a better time than the middle of April. We are looking at the time where everything seems to die... and yet, here is something being born.
Jesus was 33 1/2 year old when he died in the Jewish Spring month of Nisan the 14th day. ( April )
Jesus would have turned 34 six months later in the Autumn in Sept./ Oct.
That would place the conception of Jesus, Not in March, but more likely January to be born in Sept./ Oct.
How do you know those dates? If you say Christmas dates are just made up then they are as well. Can't have it both ways.
We moved it because Yule was a better time than the middle of April. We are looking at the time where everything seems to die... and yet, here is something being born.
think "yule" is a northern celebration (Germany, Scandinavia, and the British isles after the Germanic Saxons conquered them) and Christmas as a religious holiday celebrating the incarnation/birth of Jesus was being celebrated centuries before Christianity reached out to those areas. that certain "pagan" observances associated with yule( from yule logs to decorations of holly) became associated with the Christian celebration of Christ's birth does not prove that any real pagan beliefs "infiltrated" or "infected" the Christian holyday. certainly, nobody "worships" holy or yule logs or the "gods" once associated with them let alone considers them as parts essential or otherwise of the CHRISTIAN observance of the day (though they may enjoy the color and warmth at this drab and cold time of year---at least in many parts of the northern hemisphere!!!) but any underlying beliefs in the pagan gods that ONCE may have been associated with these things are way long gone!!!
again, regardless of when Jesus was "really" born is not so important IMHO as that Christians remember that He DID truly come into the world a real person for the salvation of all human-kind and in joy and gratitude remember and celebrate that blessed event at some point and in some way ant then live all the rest of the year trying to show that joy and gratitude in love of God and neighbor---not a bad thing I would say.
Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 12-16-2015 at 09:19 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
