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Old 12-16-2015, 02:24 PM
 
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Trinity scholars tell you Elohim = gods, yet they know 100% for sure, the Hebrew translating rule is that when Elohim is used for the true God, it is never plural. That means they are lying. Not error--Out and out Lying. There is no trinity god in existence--YHWH(Jehovah) is the only true God--every Israelite from Moses on up until this very day taught and served a single being God named YHWH(Jehovah)--taught to Jesus his first 30 years attending synagogues and temples. The God he taught as well-John 4:22-24, John 20:17, Rev 3:12)
Bottom line reality is this---those serving the non existent trinity are being mislead to break Gods #1 commandment daily.
Trinity translations are erred to fit false council teachings=fact. To try and make it look like a trinity.
Fact--the Israelites served the only true living God-YHWH(Jehovah)
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Old 12-16-2015, 03:00 PM
Status: "Phlegmatic." (set 49 minutes ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Thanks for clearing that up.
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Old 12-16-2015, 03:32 PM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
Trinity scholars tell you Elohim = gods, yet they know 100% for sure, the Hebrew translating rule is that when Elohim is used for the true God, it is never plural. That means they are lying. Not error--Out and out Lying. There is no trinity god in existence--YHWH(Jehovah) is the only true God--every Israelite from Moses on up until this very day taught and served a single being God named YHWH(Jehovah)--taught to Jesus his first 30 years attending synagogues and temples. The God he taught as well-John 4:22-24, John 20:17, Rev 3:12)
Bottom line reality is this---those serving the non existent trinity are being mislead to break Gods #1 commandment daily.
Trinity translations are erred to fit false council teachings=fact. To try and make it look like a trinity.
Fact--the Israelites served the only true living God-YHWH(Jehovah)
Elohim in Hebrew means more like the powers speaking to the attributes of G-d and not persons, however, in Genesis, where it speaks of G-d, the verbs and adjectives are in the singular which indicates that G-d is singular...There are many words in Hebrew with the -im ending that are singular and not plural, as in maim (water, not waters), so just because it has an ending that generally defines plurality, it does not always signify plural...
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Old 12-17-2015, 01:12 PM
 
4,069 posts, read 1,457,952 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Elohim in Hebrew means more like the powers speaking to the attributes of G-d and not persons, however, in Genesis, where it speaks of G-d, the verbs and adjectives are in the singular which indicates that G-d is singular...There are many words in Hebrew with the -im ending that are singular and not plural, as in maim (water, not waters), so just because it has an ending that generally defines plurality, it does not always signify plural...



The wise would question their teachers on why correction has not been made when they know for sure what Elohim really means.
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Old 12-17-2015, 01:15 PM
 
19,952 posts, read 12,981,273 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
Trinity scholars tell you Elohim = gods, yet they know 100% for sure, the Hebrew translating rule is that when Elohim is used for the true God, it is never plural.
Who is they? And how do you know that they know? And that they know they're lying?
Quote:

That means they are lying. Not error--Out and out Lying. There is no trinity god in existence--YHWH(Jehovah) is the only true God--every Israelite from Moses on up until this very day taught and served a single being God named YHWH(Jehovah)--taught to Jesus his first 30 years attending synagogues and temples. The God he taught as well-John 4:22-24, John 20:17, Rev 3:12)
Bottom line reality is this---those serving the non existent trinity are being mislead to break Gods #1 commandment daily.
Trinity translations are erred to fit false council teachings=fact. To try and make it look like a trinity.
Fact--the Israelites served the only true living God-YHWH(Jehovah)
Now that's weird, because Jesus is called God in Scripture, as is the Holy Spirit. Yet, we also know that there is only 1 God.
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Old 12-17-2015, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,597 posts, read 5,122,268 times
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Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Who is they? And how do you know that they know? And that they know they're lying?


Now that's weird, because Jesus is called God in Scripture, as is the Holy Spirit. Yet, we also know that there is only 1 God.
While I am nominally a trinitarian, it has been on these very threads that I have read enough to have good reason to not place the Trinity in any list of "required" beliefs about God.

God prayed to Himself. God intercedes for others to Himself. The Spirit is sometimes more powerful than God (according to Paul) because
Quote:
For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.
I Cor. 2:10

How one may approach the "same" God depends on which of the "same" essences one is speaking about because the Spirit is apparently more holy than Jesus:
Quote:
And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come.
Matt 12:32

The list of quotes that show Jesus "seeing" the Spirit of God, praying to God the Father, led into temptation by a separate Spirit (almost sounding like the servant of God, Satan, in the OT story of Job), is not a short one.

I used to consider Mormon views about separation of God as anathema. Now, not so much. But then it is not very hard to see how early christians may have wished to have "One God" of the monotheistic Jews, and "Three Gods" of the Trinity to make them fit together.

Hard and fast lines for either can only happen by ignoring some scripture or not fully considering them intellectually--otherwise some people might come to the conclusion that God is very obtuse concerning how He personally deals with humanity, while others make up stories NOT in the bible to explain their own conclusions.
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Old 12-17-2015, 02:10 PM
 
19,952 posts, read 12,981,273 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
While I am nominally a trinitarian, it has been on these very threads that I have read enough to have good reason to not place the Trinity in any list of "required" beliefs about God.

God prayed to Himself. God intercedes for others to Himself.
Yes--God the Son prays to God the Father. They are not the same person.
Quote:

The Spirit is sometimes more powerful than God (according to Paul) because I Cor. 2:10
umm....what?
Quote:
How one may approach the "same" God depends on which of the "same" essences one is speaking about because the Spirit is apparently more holy than Jesus:
Matt 12:32
Actually, they are of the same "essence". They are the same God -- the very same being. They are all God. They are different persons, though.

And no--Matthew 12:32 says nothing of the Spirit being "more holy".

Quote:
The list of quotes that show Jesus "seeing" the Spirit of God, praying to God the Father, led into temptation by a separate Spirit (almost sounding like the servant of God, Satan, in the OT story of Job), is not a short one.

I used to consider Mormon views about separation of God as anathema. Now, not so much. But then it is not very hard to see how early christians may have wished to have "One God" of the monotheistic Jews, and "Three Gods" of the Trinity to make them fit together.
The apostles taught that they were all 1 God, 3 persons. You can choose to believe what you want, but if you want to be consistent with what the apostles and the Early Church Fathers taught, you'll be interested to know that they taught a Trinity.
Quote:
Hard and fast lines for either can only happen by ignoring some scripture or not fully considering them intellectually--otherwise some people might come to the conclusion that God is very obtuse concerning how He personally deals with humanity, while others make up stories NOT in the bible to explain their own conclusions.
Not really. I can honestly say I'll ignore none of Scripture. But one does need to recognize that we can't simply let one passage supercede another.
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Old 12-17-2015, 02:28 PM
 
37,545 posts, read 25,255,858 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Yes--God the Son prays to God the Father. They are not the same person.
umm....what?
Actually, they are of the same "essence". They are the same God -- the very same being. They are all God. They are different persons, though.
And no--Matthew 12:32 says nothing of the Spirit being "more holy".
The apostles taught that they were all 1 God, 3 persons. You can choose to believe what you want, but if you want to be consistent with what the apostles and the Early Church Fathers taught, you'll be interested to know that they taught a Trinity.
Not really. I can honestly say I'll ignore none of Scripture. But one does need to recognize that we can't simply let one passage supercede another.
There is absolutely no point in trying to make sense of the Trinity nonsense as this post clearly reveals. It is bogus human irrationality pretending to understand what they do not understand because they think magically and regard their concept of persons as something other than consciousness. They do not comprehend that we are Spirits (consciousness) temporarily inhabiting a physical body (womb).
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Old 12-17-2015, 02:39 PM
 
Location: US
26,288 posts, read 13,939,623 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Now that's weird, because Jesus is called God in Scripture, as is the Holy Spirit. Yet, we also know that there is only 1 God.
No, neither one are called G-d in the NT...Now, that's a lie...
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Old 12-17-2015, 03:00 PM
 
Location: USA
3,032 posts, read 1,054,584 times
Reputation: 875
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
Trinity scholars tell you Elohim = gods, yet they know 100% for sure, the Hebrew translating rule is that when Elohim is used for the true God, it is never plural. That means they are lying. Not error--Out and out Lying. There is no trinity god in existence--YHWH(Jehovah) is the only true God--every Israelite from Moses on up until this very day taught and served a single being God named YHWH(Jehovah)--taught to Jesus his first 30 years attending synagogues and temples. The God he taught as well-John 4:22-24, John 20:17, Rev 3:12)
Bottom line reality is this---those serving the non existent trinity are being mislead to break Gods #1 commandment daily.
Trinity translations are erred to fit false council teachings=fact. To try and make it look like a trinity.
Fact--the Israelites served the only true living God-YHWH(Jehovah)
Here is some out and out lying for you. It's found in the KJV.

Psalms 8
[5] For thou has made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
(KJV)

This reads rather different in the original Hebrew.

Psalms 8:
[5]what mortal that you-are-being-mindful-of·him and·son-of human that you-are-visiting·him and·you-are-making-lack·him little from·Elohim and·glory and·honor.
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...OTpdf/psa8.pdf

The Hebrew word for angel is malak, which sounds nothing like Elohim and means something entirely different as well. The original version in Hebrew elevated mankind almost to the level of the gods, or perhaps even God Himself. Neither of these possibilities were in keeping with church doctrine at the time the KJV was translated. So they changed the word to bring what the psalm actually said into line with what they decided that it should have said. That's a common enough practice in religion. Facts are no match for doctrine. Especially unacceptable facts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malak

Elohim is a word very much like deer. It can mean a deer, or numerous deer. Pre-Babylonian exile Jews were Henotheistic. They accepted the existence of many gods, but the Levites promoted the worship of their tribal god. The name for this god is written as YEVH in the OT and has come down to Christians as Jehovah. Abraham worshiped the "God most high" of the Canaanite priest king of Salem (Jerusalem), known as El, or Elyon. This was El the bull, the creation god of Mesopotamian religious belief. A direct link between the belief in El and the belief in YEVH is difficult to establish. The answer gets lost in the swirling soup of the many Elohim and various beliefs that were in practice as time passed.
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