Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
He who knew no sin became sin, that we can become the righteousness of God in Him.
Get that? How can we who do not do right be rightous? We'll answer that with the question:
How could He who did nothing wrong be sin?
The divine exchange.
The Father offered His Son, just as the lambs were offered as a sacrifice under the law; now we have a substitute - what will we do - who do you say that He is?
My arguments here are mostly academic...Against those things said that are not in there, that one has to do mental gymnastics to come to...He couldn't have been a sacrifice, because that would be a human sacrifice and G-d is pretty adamant that He hates those...And G-d also says that each man shall die for his own sins, no man may die for the sins of another...So, since He also states that He never changes, then His position on those two things would not change either...
Richard, can you tell me why you are not in the Garden tending it? Why you are not building an Ark? To say that because God never changes that He cannot change his plans or methods of dealing with man would also mean there is no Jewish race for He could not have called Abraham and set a people apart. Think about that. God has changed his ways many times. If He had not there would have been no Tabernacle or Temple or even a Priesthood for that matter.
You make a valid point. Man often will not consider something in order to maintain his belief or disbelief as the case may be. Others listen, read, view, research, and/or investigate to see if they can believe a thing or not. I know many who will not consider the bible at all and I am sure it is to maintain their rejection of it or parts of it. So I do believe we have a voluntary role to play many times in what we believe.
I am reminded of the scripture that say's "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God". So many work hard at rejecting the Word of God in order to prevent gaining faith. IMHO
I don't have any reason to believe that the Bible is the "word of God" or that the Christian God is real in the first place. I don't have to work very hard at not believing. I don't have to work very hard at not believing in the Easter Bunny either.
Do you believe that the Quran is the "word" of the Muslim God? Do you believe that the Muslim God (Allah) is real? I suspect that you do not. Do you not believe in the Quran or Allah because of some effort on your part? Or is it just a natural and healthy skepticism for you?
Again, a fundamental fallacy at the heart of evangelical Christianity this: belief is voluntary and can be achieved by working hard at it. That's not how it works. For example, I believe that I'm sitting here in upstate New York typing words into my smartphone. I don't have to work very hard at believing that. I just believe it because it appears self-evident and undeniable.
I don't have any reason to believe that the Bible is the "word of God" or that the Christian God is real in the first place. I don't have to work very hard at not believing. I don't have to work very hard at not believing in the Easter Bunny either.
Do you believe that the Quran is the "word" of the Muslim God? Do you believe that the Muslim God (Allah) is real? I suspect that you do not. Do you not believe in the Quran or Allah because of some effort on your part? Or is it just a natural and healthy skepticism for you?
Again, a fundamental fallacy at the heart of evangelical Christianity this: belief is voluntary and can be achieved by working hard at it. That's not how it works. For example, I believe that I'm sitting here in upstate New York typing words into my smartphone. I don't have to work very hard at believing that. I just believe it because it appears self-evident and undeniable.
So tell me, what have you come to believe that you have not been exposed to, read about, or heard about?
My arguments here are mostly academic...Against those things said that are not in there, that one has to do mental gymnastics to come to...He couldn't have been a sacrifice, because that would be a human sacrifice and G-d is pretty adamant that He hates those...And G-d also says that each man shall die for his own sins, no man may die for the sins of another...So, since He also states that He never changes, then His position on those two things would not change either...
Quote:
Originally Posted by HamFan
Richard, can you tell me why you are not in the Garden tending it?
Because mankind got kicked out of it in order to prevent them from living forever...
Quote:
Why you are not building an Ark?
Eh...Already been done...
Quote:
To say that because God never changes that He cannot change his plans or methods of dealing with man would also mean there is no Jewish race for He could not have called Abraham and set a people apart.
How do you come to this conclusion?...
Quote:
Think about that. God has changed his ways many times.
Where has He changed His ways?...
Quote:
If He had not there would have been no Tabernacle or Temple or even a Priesthood for that matter.
As regards the supposed special status of Jews, you are right. I reject it and will never understand how anyone COULD accept it. As regards obedience to laws and rules, it is you and those "Obeyers", like Katz and so many others who do NOT seem to understand our loving God. Obedience was needed during the Schoolmaster stage of our species' evolution. But it is to be discarded when we reach spiritual maturity in agape love of God and each other. I understand that we are all at different stages of spiritual development, Richard, and obedience plays an important role for many. But it is NOT the desired state of mind. Those who stay in it fail to develop properly, IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965
Looks more like you consider yourself in a special status....
You know that is not true, Richard. I do not think ANYONE of us has any special status except Jesus. I realize you have some genetic information that pleases you and is the source of your affinity for the Jewish traditions. There is nothing wrong with that. But to think God requires obedience to those traditions and somehow considers you special because of it is just silly superstition based on primitive recordings, IMO. Clearly YMMV.
I don't have any reason to believe that the Bible is the "word of God" or that the Christian God is real in the first place. I don't have to work very hard at not believing. I don't have to work very hard at not believing in the Easter Bunny either.
Again, a fundamental fallacy at the heart of evangelical Christianity this: belief is voluntary and can be achieved by working hard at it. .
tells me that I don't need to elaborate ... you're not suddenly dumbfounded .
If you are to be believed and were supposedly raised LCMS \ went through Catechism class, then you aren't asking the right question.
Because mankind got kicked out of it in order to prevent them from living forever...
Eh...Already been done...
How do you come to this conclusion?...
Where has He changed His ways?...
How's that?...
Each thing I listed was some change that God introduced. If you don't get the point then never mind.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
