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It is quite clear now that you are just another fundamentalist "brother from another mother." I usually avoid engaging them once it is clear their minds are closed. "When the Bible says Jesus is the savior of the world [b]and especially of those who believe………" it removes ANT conditions from our salvation and completely negates ANY of the nonsense about what we need to believe to be saved.
Why do you think the Bible warns Christians not to fall into the sin of unbelief?…
Your cherry picking of verses proves you are a hypocrite through you only accepting your interpretation of your select chosen verses while ignoring all of the ones that openly condemn you for not worshipping in truth
As I have said many times now………….. because of your lack of knowledge thus not being able to worship God in truth as required of us by Him………….. God does not witness the ministries of those like you with signs and wonders as He does persons who worship Him in truth and in Spirit.
You can have a zillion people bowing down to your pseudo religion but until God blesses it you have nothing to show for yourself.
God did not say His people perrish for a lack of love but because of their lack of knowledge!!!
Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
The first laws (precepts) you need to learn are those for determining the truth within the Word of God as first given to Moses and spoken of by Isaiah (chap.28:1-13) as well as by Jesus and the Apostles throughout the NT
Your great error is not knowing the truth and not believing in it because the hour has come
John 4:23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
God cares about us finding him, if we seek him we will find him not a belief system built upon suppossed truths. Truth is not a belief it is reality. In otherwords Jesus Christ who said I am the truth is the reality of God.
God cares about us finding him, if we seek him we will find him not a belief system built upon suppossed truths. Truth is not a belief it is reality. In otherwords Jesus Christ who said I am the truth is the reality of God.
And the truth God cares about is that none of those doctrines, supposedly derived from scripture is that "truth."
And the truth God cares about is that none of those doctrines, supposedly derived from scripture is that "truth."
So according to you the possibility of the fulnness of Him formed in us is not a reality but just a pipe dream?
Why do you think Paul encourages Christians to run the race as if their is only one winner,,,,,,,,, AKA second place being the first looser ?????????
What is it about He.6:1-3 that makes it too dificult for you to grasp?
He. 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
What is being said here is once we have these foundational doctrines truthfully placed in our hearts as God would have us to belive them……………. He will carry us from there all the way to perfection that is the fullness of Jesus formed in us
Don't get them right and you will join the ranks of Christians who have fallen into the sin of unbelief in the truth and have thus missed out on the high calling of His salvation that is the fulness of Him formed in us.
This is already bad enough but what makes it worse for you guys is, all the ones who fall for your false doctrines and miss out on the fulness of what could have been their inheritance all because they made the mistake of listening to you instead of believing in the Word of God
This is the same problem most of the clergy of today faces………….. they will not only fail to obtain what they could have obtained but will also be held responsible for those they have falsely influenced
The things in verse 1 are not doctrines, they are experiences when we realize the love of god as it applies to our life and our love of others and the "fulness of Christ in us" is the goal of sanctification as we learn more how to apply that concern for the well-being of others that IS the "agape" Christ would have us live.
The things in verse 1 are not doctrines, they are experiences when we realize the love of god as it applies to our life and our love of others and the "fulness of Christ in us" is the goal of sanctification as we learn more how to apply that concern for the well-being of others that IS the "agape" Christ would have us live.
Quote:
I]He. 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit. [/i]
I get it
According to you the word "doctrine" stated in verse 1 is not referiing to any one of the 7 (# of divine completion) foundational doctrines listed here that are the knowledge of the true foundation of Christ in us.
By your words anybody could belive anything about Jesus as long as long they love him who loved us first.
Did you ever read the verse as to why all who belive on Christ automatically love Him?
Here is one of them and there is a bunch more
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
As far as the fulllness of Christ appearing in man for a second time on earth
2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts
All creation waits for it
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God
Jesus has promised it to those who overcome as HE HAS (aka Him)
Re.2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28 And I will give him the morning star.
29 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
For additional support of not walking in agape towards others before gaining it, consider this……..
Peter who denied Christ thrice was further at that time than most are today yet he was not anywhere near walking in Agape either albeit according to history it seems as if he was by the time of death
I would not say, he was further along - he had much to learn.
Quote:
In between those two times Peter gained the mind of Christ………… something I do not believe anyone has acquired today
There is a big difference between someone saying they will die for someone else versus actually doing it……… and there is only one way to prove it.
Been there multiple times, yet survived it.
You do not have to die to lay down your life.
Although, I did twice through the loss of blood.
And the stopping of the heart without being brain dead.
I would not say, he was further along - he had much to learn.
Been there multiple times, yet survived it.
You do not have to die to lay down your life.
Although, I did twice through the loss of blood.
And the stopping of the heart without being brain dead.
It was a dark place, yet very peaceful.
Before anyone can gain the mind of Christ they must first be "beheaded" of the mind of man
NDE's are more frequently reported these days although that does not mean there are any more of them now than in times past sans percentage difference due to population growth. (IMO)
Some people have actually died and been resurrected from the dead just as some of those in the Bible were
Mine appears in my blog where what I witnessed on the other side is the resurrection of the dead where the obvious is you cannot attend it with out first dying. I did not talk about it much after the first few days because people thought I was nuts saying how I know life goes on after this one without even skipping a beat so to speak. (pun intended)
However, we are all judged for what we do or do not do in this life
It was 5 more years before I found out everything I had witnessed was already recorded in the Bible (Re.20:12,13) "then it was another 5 years before I connected the dots on why the man was rubbing oil on my chest when I came back to life just like the NT apostles did when they "anointed with oil and prayed over persons
For me it was the first time I actually had peace and would have preferred to have been allowed to have stayed albeit I understand why that was not possible and the price I would pay for the knowledge gained
It is quite clear now that you are just another fundamentalist "brother from another mother." I usually avoid engaging them once it is clear their minds are closed. "When the Bible says Jesus is the savior of the world [b]and especially of those who believe………" it removes ANY conditions from our salvation and completely negates ANY of the nonsense about what we need to believe to be saved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livelystone
Why do you think the Bible warns Christians not to fall into the sin of unbelief?…
I was going to answer your vitriol and denigration of me and my motives, but I detected a God-complex or Messiah-complex tenor to your rhetoric. Clearly, like Peacegiver, you are under the delusion that you are someone specially anointed by God. I generally avoid such people. Belief and unbelief played very different roles back then than they do today. There was a direct connection between what they believed and what they did in those simpler times, unlike today with so many nuanced responses to beliefs. That is why the expression "pisteuo eis" was misunderstood to be "believe IN" instead of what it actually means which was "believe ON/INTO." The latter is a deep and inner response that resonated within their very being and was reflected in their behavior, not an intellectual one of "believing IN" some set of "precepts and doctrines of men."
Your fascination with and trust in the OT understanding of God is your mistake. Those primitive, savage and barbaric beliefs about God were largely WRONG because they were created under the context of a wrathful God who needed to be appeased yearly by blood sacrifices!!! That may be the God you follow, but it is NOT the one revealed by Christ which is the one I follow. Have a nice day. Peace in Christ's love.
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