Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-09-2016, 01:09 PM
 
741 posts, read 440,513 times
Reputation: 63

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
The law being written on those of Israel is yet future.
I wonder why you stopped at verse 6 of 2 Corinthians? Why not go on to verse 7?:

2Co 3:6 Who also makes us competent dispensers of a new covenant, not of the letter, but of the spirit, for the letter is killing, yet the spirit is vivifying."
2Co 3:7 (Now if the dispensation of death, by letters chiseled in stone, came in glory, so that the sons of Israel were not able to look intently into the face of Moses, because of the glory of his face, which was being nullified,

The letter is not all the words in the Bible. It is the letter of the context Paul was getting at which was the letter of the law. Those letter chiseled in stone by Moses making up the 10 commandments.
I agree with this assessment. If we don't cherry pick Paul's letters we do see that Paul was glorifying what was written on actual tablets. Men's hearts can only be read by their actions which is what the last verses of 2 Cor was speaking of as being a reflection of the glory written Word of God as well. Since is it God's Word that makes them act righteously which in turn makes God glorious.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-09-2016, 02:01 PM
 
6,961 posts, read 4,584,007 times
Reputation: 2485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Paul was appointed by God and Christ to be the apostle for the nations. The twelve believed as much. Paul was never arrogant. Nor was he misogynous:

  1. dislike of, contempt for, or ingrained prejudice against women.
    "she felt she was struggling against thinly disguised misogyny"
He worked with the women in the church. He told the husbands to love their wives. Sure, in one church he told the women to not teach but learn in quietness. They were probably getting out of hand in trying to rule over the men and husbands.


He didn't display anger or rage. Paul always tried to represent God and the Lord Jesus. Paul represents Christ.


If you reject Paul, you reject God and Christ.
Paul was anointed by Paul. I reject Paul, and his misogyny. God and I are old friends. Your admonishment about Paul does not concern me, and does not concern God. It is also somewhat silly.

As far as women getting out of hand? Typical misogyny from a man expecting submission. Very silly indeed Eusebius.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-09-2016, 03:10 PM
 
63,461 posts, read 39,726,177 times
Reputation: 7792
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
This:

Hebrews 8:7-13 King James Version (KJV)

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

John 14:26 King James Version (KJV)

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

1 John 2:27 (King James Version)

27But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.

2 Corinthians 3: 2-6 (King James Version)

2Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
The law being written on those of Israel is yet future.
I wonder why you stopped at verse 6 of 2 Corinthians? Why not go on to verse 7?:
This ridiculous assertion about things still being in the future after 2000+ years of future since the words were written would be humorous if it wasn't so sad. We are living in their future, their "latter days," and the majority has indeed become the anti-Christ apostate majority prophesied for the "latter days." Jesus instituted the New Covenant by His death on the cross and resurrection (rebirth as Spirit) to become the Comforter (Holy Spirit) sent in His name to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts."
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
Wait a minute...you just used the Bible....but you said and I quote "No, the Bible is not how we know the truth." By your own words I shouldn't listen to what you just quoted in the Bible. You're whole argument is null and void based on your own paradoxical use of the Bible. What you just did falls in line with being hypocritical. (I can do this and get away with it but others can't.)
This juvenile nonsense about using the Bible in an all-or-nothing way is beyond ignorant. Of course, we can use the Bible since it CONTAINS inspired truth. But it is NOT ALL inspired truth and we have the absolute standard of God's truth - the Spirit of agape love (Who IS God) - to aid us in testing the Spirit of everything in the Bible. Anything that is compatible with or consistent with the Spirit of agape love is true, period. Everything else is NOT.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-09-2016, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
10,688 posts, read 7,656,145 times
Reputation: 4674
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
Did you read the very next verse Lev 19:18? "you must love your fellow man as yourself." Fellow man covers everyone and Jesus was not calling the law inadequate but magnifying part of the law that the 'lawyer' was skipping. Just as you just skipped the very next verse in Lev chapter 19 to trick others as the lawyer was trying to accomplish. If the Holy Spirit was telling people parts of the Bible was false then God's Son Jesus was working against himself. There is absolutely nothing Jesus did to call any part of the Bible false. Jesus came to fulfill the law not destroy it or call it false. Matthew 5:17, 18 says, “Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill.Truly I say to you that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or one stroke of a letter to pass away from the Law until all things take place." Do you believe this to be true?
Well one needn't be a butt to read all the "but's" of Jesus. And what Jesus was saying is that a LITERAL acceptance of Scripture leads one astray.

It is the Spirit of Scripture that is important. When you find condemnation of people in Scripture--and people attributing it to God--then you have the spirit of the adversary whom Jesus condemned in the Pharisee.

How does one KNOW that Scripture is misleading? It's when one uses it to send other people to hell, figuratively or literally. That is no person's calling. Not even Jesus was in the business of condemning individuals. He was in the business of rescuing them.

Quote:
"You judge according to the flesh; I am not judging anyone. But even if I do judge, My judgment is true; for I am not alone in it, but I and the Father who sent Me.…
John 8:15-16

But "bible-believers" are in the condemning business, because they can "see" the truth of the Bible. About those "Pharisees" Jesus once said--

Quote:
Jesus said to them, "If you were blind, you would have no sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains."
John 9:40

Just as the Pharisees were fond of swallowing Scripture hook, line, and sinker, so, too, are many of those who claim to be "bible-believers." Jesus had a different way of weighing Scripture because He never took all those words literally--primarily if they were used to condemn people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
This juvenile nonsense about using the Bible in an all-or-nothing way is beyond ignorant.
AMEN!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-10-2016, 12:51 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,832,457 times
Reputation: 1869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
The law being written on those of Israel is yet future.
I wonder why you stopped at verse 6 of 2 Corinthians? Why not go on to verse 7?:

2Co 3:6 Who also makes us competent dispensers of a new covenant, not of the letter, but of the spirit, for the letter is killing, yet the spirit is vivifying."
2Co 3:7 (Now if the dispensation of death, by letters chiseled in stone, came in glory, so that the sons of Israel were not able to look intently into the face of Moses, because of the glory of his face, which was being nullified,

The letter is not all the words in the Bible. It is the letter of the context Paul was getting at which was the letter of the law. Those letter chiseled in stone by Moses making up the 10 commandments.
What do you think it was that was being nullified? Go om to the NEXT verse and find that if the Law (which was fadinf) came in glory, how much more so does the Spirit, the New standard.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-10-2016, 05:02 AM
 
Location: New England
37,336 posts, read 28,087,833 times
Reputation: 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
Well one needn't be a butt to read all the "but's" of Jesus. And what Jesus was saying is that a LITERAL acceptance of Scripture leads one astray.

It is the Spirit of Scripture that is important. When you find condemnation of people in Scripture--and people attributing it to God--then you have the spirit of the adversary whom Jesus condemned in the Pharisee.

How does one KNOW that Scripture is misleading? It's when one uses it to send other people to hell, figuratively or literally. That is no person's calling. Not even Jesus was in the business of condemning individuals. He was in the business of rescuing them.

John 8:15-16

But "bible-believers" are in the condemning business, because they can "see" the truth of the Bible. About those "Pharisees" Jesus once said--

John 9:40

Just as the Pharisees were fond of swallowing Scripture hook, line, and sinker, so, too, are many of those who claim to be "bible-believers." Jesus had a different way of weighing Scripture because He never took all those words literally--primarily if they were used to condemn people.

AMEN!!
And and for you too Warden .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-10-2016, 06:40 AM
 
Location: Oregon
802 posts, read 449,917 times
Reputation: 46
Default The "Inerrant Word of God" or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterseat View Post
I believe in the inerrant Word of God.
RESPONSE:

Are you seriously claiming that both of these sets of New Testament passages are inerrant?

Jesus was born during the reign of King Herod the Great (died in 4 BC). - Matthew
Jesus was born during the Judean census conducted by the Roman governor Quirinius in 6 AD - Luke

When entering Jerusalem Jesus sent for and rode one animal in the usual manner. - Mark, Luke, John
When entering Jerusalem Jesus sent for and rode two animals to fulfill a prophecy. - Matthew

Jesus was crucified on the Passover - Matthew, Mark, Luke
Jesus was crucified on the day before Passover - John

Last edited by Aristotle's Child; 02-10-2016 at 06:40 AM.. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-10-2016, 06:56 AM
 
741 posts, read 440,513 times
Reputation: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
This juvenile nonsense about using the Bible in an all-or-nothing way is beyond ignorant. Of course, we can use the Bible since it CONTAINS inspired truth. But it is NOT ALL inspired truth and we have the absolute standard of God's truth - the Spirit of agape love (Who IS God) - to aid us in testing the Spirit of everything in the Bible. Anything that is compatible with or consistent with the Spirit of agape love is true, period. Everything else is NOT.
Juvenile? Not even close. I caught you contradicting your own words, now you're upset and being crude. Also, pride didn't allow you to address the scriptures noted in my comment. All of this can be remedied with study of the Bible. Not just reading it but actually studying it. Until then have a great day.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-10-2016, 07:14 AM
 
741 posts, read 440,513 times
Reputation: 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
Well one needn't be a butt to read all the "but's" of Jesus. And what Jesus was saying is that a LITERAL acceptance of Scripture leads one astray.
Is that what the Bible says though?

"My son, if you accept my sayings And treasure up my commandments,By making your ear attentive to wisdom And inclining your heart to discernment; Moreover, if you call out for understanding And raise your voice for discernment; If you keep seeking for it as for silver, And you keep searching for it as for hidden treasures; Then you will understand the fear of Jehovah, And you will find the knowledge of God. For Jehovah himself gives wisdom; From his mouth come knowledge and discernment. He treasures up practical wisdom for the upright; He is a shield for those walking in integrity." Proverbs 2:1-7

"For all the things that were written beforehand were written for our instruction, so that through our endurance and through the comfort from the Scriptures we might have hope." - Romans 15:4

No where did Jesus say a literal reading of the scripture leads people astray. However, Peter under direction of the God's Spirit said, "Furthermore, consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you according to the wisdom given him, speaking about these things as he does in all his letters. However, some things in them are hard to understand, and these things the ignorant and unstable are twisting, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction."

So just because something is hard to understand due to ignorance doesn't mean we turn to twisting the scriptures to fit our own interpretations. In fact doing so can lead to our own destruction.

The Bible is it's own best interpreter. Yet to be able to use the Bible as an interpreter you must have patience and study it consistently. “Keep on asking, and it will be given you; keep on seeking, and you will find; keep on knocking, and it will be opened to you. For everyone asking receives, and everyone seeking finds, and to everyone knocking it will be opened.” - Matthew 7:7, 8

Note none of the above scriptures need to be twisted to saying something else.

Last edited by 2Timothy316; 02-10-2016 at 07:24 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-10-2016, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
17,071 posts, read 10,832,457 times
Reputation: 1869
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
Juvenile? Not even close. I caught you contradicting your own words, now you're upset and being crude. Also, pride didn't allow you to address the scriptures noted in my comment. All of this can be remedied with study of the Bible. Not just reading it but actually studying it. Until then have a great day.
No, you ndid not catch him contradicting: he was not using the Bible AS authority, he was using what was expressed IN the Bible and confirmed by the Authority (Spirit), but it IS useful to show that the Bible people claim to believe in does not say what they claim, just to show them up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top