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Of course, but study does NOT mean blindly accept everything as true. We are to test the Spirit of eveyrthing, something you do not seem to do.
That was only in the early church when spirits were coming to some of the believers. They were to test the spirits if they were of God.
We are not to accept as true everything in a poorly translated bible such as "eternal torment." We would not know if "eternal" was incorrect if we did not study the Greek and Hebrew words behind it. Some don't do this and so are at the mercy of a poor and very substandard translation. We would suspect eternal torment must be an incorrect translation since there are scriptures attesting to the truth of God saving all mankind, reconciling all, heading up all in the Christ, making all mankind righteous etc.
The Holy bible is a complete book. From the first book of genesis which describes creation to the last book of revelation which foretells the end. Reject any portion of the bible and you then reject the whole book and Christ. Christ is the word of the Bible made flesh. Most who comment on the bible have not even read it. The Bible is the best selling book of all time. No other book even comes close. You could read it over and over a 100 times and still not understand everything that it says. The Bible has a 100% track record of being correct on prophecy. Thats 100%. No other book even comes close.
Amen, Yabbhadou !!
Please let not these individuals intimidate you !
We have a group here who have nothing else better to do (as you can see) but come to the Christianity forum that like to bully others in their faith !!
May the arrogant be ashamed, for they subvert me with a lie; but I shall meditate on Your precepts. Psalm 119:78 (NASB)
There is a good group of godly men that God has placed here to keep posting His truth against the opposition going on here ! I'm sure you'll discern who they are in what they post in no time at all !
And with the other individuals if you do decided to stick around just ignore their ways and definitely do not take any thing they say personal !!
As we know God is faithful and He will take care of those who are trying to make ppl feel bad, confuse them or get ppl to listen to their gnostic imaginations (teaching) .
If you follow their post you'll understand, Yabbhadou !!
Keep looking and seeking the Lord Jesus as He loves you dearly, amen !
Blessing's to you and by the way, "Welcome"
The person who does anything defiantly, whether he is native or an alien, that one is blaspheming the Lord; and that person shall be cut off from among his people. Numbers 15:30 (NASB)
Very nice post Yabbhadou! It is so true. The Bible could be read 100's of times and still not be understood because God is the one who opens the eyes and hearts to the truths contained therein.
Act_16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple of the city of Thyatira, revering God, heard, whose heart the Lord opens up to heed what is spoken by Paul."
People who read the Bible should ask God to open their heart to understand what is written. Otherwise, they will think like two people here whose moniker begins with "M" and "p."
Pauline worship, methinks.
In December, 2010 Scot McKnight wrote an article for Christianity Today stating regarding his time in bible college (Cornerstone University) studies:
Quote:
Something was clearly happening to me. Formerly I had loved Paul and thought with Paul. Then, when I had encountered Jesus, (my emphasis) I began learning to think with Jesus. One of my colleagues occasionally suggested I was getting too Jesus-centered and ignoring Paul. I'm not so sure I was ignoring Paul, after all I was teaching a few of his letters on a regular basis. But I had unlearned how to think in Pauline terms and was thinking only in terms of Jesus. Everything was kingdom-centered for me.
Evangelicalism is facing a crisis about the relationship of Jesus to Paul, and many today are choosing sides. And truth be told, I was so taken with Jesus' kingdom vision that reading Paul created a dilemma every time I opened his letters.
Anyone who fails to see some conflicts between Paul and Jesus just isn't reading Scripture carefully.
Try reading Davis Danizier's article entitled The Betrayal of Jesus
Quote:
This page offers an overview of the core teachings that are actually attributed to Jesus, without all the harsh Old Testament “Law of Moses” baggage, and before being perverted and undermined by the renegade “apostle” Paul. Essentially, Jesus taught a simple ethic of universal love and compassion for all people — friends, strangers, even enemies — expressed actively through our actions, and said that salvation would be predicated solely on that. This introductory essay sets the foundation by introducing the simple, pure, enlightening gospel of compassionate joyfulness as expressed in the teachings attributed to Jesus.
Paul was educated, wealthy, and had the means to travel. A far cry from the carpenter's son who strove to make a living day to day--and even taught us to pray asking only for the needs of the day.
Paul's message appeals to middle classes and those who are too immersed in their daily lives to do anything other than "have faith." While the best of his writing may provide some enlightenment, much of it is a far cry from the message of Jesus which was much stronger and required much more discipline of life.
Quote:
Despite the widespread, uncritical adulation of Paul by those who listen to others instead of thinking for themselves, independent-minded analysts of Jesus' teachings have often found great cause to find fault with Paul. One of the most famous critcisms comes from Thomas Jefferson, who wrote in a letter to James Smith, that "Paul was ... the first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus." (Works, 1829 edition, vol. 4, p. 327.) George Bernard Shaw, the English playwright, is widely quoted as having said that: "...it would have been a better world if Paul had never been born."
Jesus reportedly teaches that BEHAVIORAL requirements (works/deeds), rooted in an internal change of spiritual growth within the person (not external or apart from the person, though the gift of teaching and techniques to achieve this personal change are a gift of grace not earned or deserved by us, but requiring ACTIONS [deeds] to implement), are integral to salvation. While perhaps it is not possible for us to "earn" the "free gift" that Jesus reportedly provides -- a teaching of the universal compassionate love by which the evil within us CAN be transformed into a more holy kindness of love -- the Jesus account clearly includes a behavioral component to his requirements for "salvation." While he does not say that this satisfies any "debt," he still requires it; perhaps he is demanding merely a small partial "payment" as a gesture of "good faith." (In fact, James suggests this by his comments in James 2:26, that we demonstrate our faith -- if it is genuine -- BY our works or deeds.)
Please let not these individuals intimidate you !
We have a group here who have nothing else better to do (as you can see) but come to the Christianity forum that like to bully others in their faith !!
May the arrogant be ashamed, for they subvert me with a lie; but I shall meditate on Your precepts. Psalm 119:78 (NASB)
There is a good group of godly men that God has placed here to keep posting His truth against the opposition going on here ! I'm sure you'll discern who they are in what they post in no time at all !
And with the other individuals if you do decided to stick around just ignore their ways and definitely do not take any thing they say personal !!
As we know God is faithful and He will take care of those who are trying to make ppl feel bad, confuse them or get ppl to listen to their gnostic imaginations (teaching) .
If you follow their post you'll understand, Yabbhadou !!
Keep looking and seeking the Lord Jesus as He loves you dearly, amen !
Blessing's to you and by the way, "Welcome"
The person who does anything defiantly, whether he is native or an alien, that one is blaspheming the Lord; and that person shall be cut off from among his people. Numbers 15:30 (NASB)
Danizier also has a good article on The Blasephemy of Bibleolatry. He is not writing as one with a particular axe to grind as he is an agnostic--but one who is extremely interested in the message of Jesus.
Quote:
For all the richness, insight and wisdom which the Bible provides, we must remember that it came forth from a people who began their existence as nomadic refugees, first from the lands of the fertile crescent, later from Egyptian slavery, and also from subsequent conquests by Babylon (Persia) and Rome. The books of the Bible were produced at differing times, under differing conditions, by writers who often did not know of each other and were not familiar with each other’s works. The Bible itself was not even compiled into its current form until several centuries after the last event in it (other than prophecies) had occurred. The early Christians did not go to their worship services carrying their neatly-packaged Bibles — the Bible was yet be developed and, in those early times, differing communities of Christians (not to mention the Jews from whom the Old Testament of the Bible originated) had very different and sometimes conflicting compilations which only a few could actually possess in those days before inexpensive printing and production methods
If Yabbhadou doesn't spend his intelligence ration learning for himself by reading many differing opinion, he'll wind up in your own sad situation--which used to be mine as well.
It's very, very easy to accept writings as perfect when one needs an idol rather than an example. For those of us who peruse Scripture to seek the best it has to offer--it requires something you aren't practicing--REAL faith. Closing one's eyes and clapping one's hands over their ears may be a lot of things--it's just not faith.
Danizier also has a good article on The Blasephemy of Bibleolatry. He is not writing as one with a particular axe to grind as he is an agnostic--but one who is extremely interested in the message of Jesus.
Quote:
For all the richness, insight and wisdom which the Bible provides, we must remember that it came forth from a people who began their existence as nomadic refugees, first from the lands of the fertile crescent, later from Egyptian slavery, and also from subsequent conquests by Babylon (Persia) and Rome. The books of the Bible were produced at differing times, under differing conditions, by writers who often did not know of each other and were not familiar with each other’s works. The Bible itself was not even compiled into its current form until several centuries after the last event in it (other than prophecies) had occurred. The early Christians did not go to their worship services carrying their neatly-packaged Bibles — the Bible was yet be developed and, in those early times, differing communities of Christians (not to mention the Jews from whom the Old Testament of the Bible originated) had very different and sometimes conflicting compilations which only a few could actually possess in those days before inexpensive printing and production method.
https://danizier.wordpress.com/2011/...f-bibleolatry/
If Yabbhadou doesn't spend his intelligence ration learning for himself by reading many differing opinion, he'll wind up in your own sad situation--which used to be mine as well.
It's very, very easy to accept writings as perfect when one needs an idol rather than an example. For those of us who peruse Scripture to seek the best it has to offer--it requires something you aren't practicing--REAL faith. Closing one's eyes and clapping one's hands over their ears may be a lot of things--it's just not faith.
Amen, Warden. The reluctance to test the Spirit of anything in the Bible is a major source of corruption of Christ's Gospel.
Are only parts of the Bible inspired? All are inspired by God the Holy Spirit, third person of the Deity God and the Bible is the only Scriptures given to us and is the truth.
"Your Word is Truth" ~ Jesus
"All Scripture is God-breathed" ~ God the Holy Spirit, third person of the Deity God
"Hisletters [Paul] contain some things that are hard to understand,
which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures,
to their own destruction."
Jesus doesn't say "Some parts of your Word is Truth"
God does not say "Some parts of Scripture is God-breathed others not"
God does not say that Paul's letters contradict Jesus
Are only parts of the Bible inspired? All are inspired by God the Holy Spirit, third person of the Deity God and the Bible is the only Scriptures given to us and is the truth.
"Your Word is Truth" ~ Jesus
"All Scripture is God-breathed" ~ God the Holy Spirit, third person of the Deity God "Hisletters [Paul] contain some things that are hard to understand,
which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures,
to their own destruction."
Jesus doesn't say "Some parts of your Word is Truth"
God does not say "Some parts of Scripture is God-breathed others not"
God does not say that Paul's letters contradict Jesus
The ignorant people who distort those writings of Paul are those who have to create fictionalized stories to make them "fit" with Jesus' teachings. Any person who quotes Paul consistently is generally a Paulinian--not a Christian.
Quote:
Romans 3:28 (Paul)
KJV: a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH apart from WORKS of the law.
RSV: a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH without the DEEDS of the law.
Today's English Version: a person is PUT RIGHT WITH GOD only through FAITH, and not by DOING what the Law commands.
NIV: a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH apart from OBSERVING THE LAW.
James 2:24 (James' rebuttal)
KJV: by WORKS a man is JUSTIFIED, and not by FAITH only.
RSV: a man is JUSTIFIED by WORKS and not by FAITH alone.
Today's English Version: it is by his ACTIONS that a person is PUT RIGHT WITH GOD, and not by his FAITH alone.
NIV: a person is JUSTIFIED by what he DOES and not by FAITH alone.
Clearly, James seems to be saying exactly the opposite of what Paul says. The key words here, in both passages, are JUSTIFIED (or, in Today's English, "put right with God"), WORKS/DEEDS/ACTIONS (or, in NIV, "observing the law"), and FAITH (same in all versions of both passages). Not only does James echo the same words, in the same parallel structure, but he even cites exactly the same example! The passage from Paul comes near the end of the third chapter of Romans; immediately after that, opening up the fourth chapter, Paul cites the example of Abraham and says it was his faith, not his works, that justified him (Romans 4:1-3). In James 2:21-24 (the same passage noted above), Paul's very example is used against him, but with the opposite (and contradictory) conclusion, that Abraham was justified by the combination of faith with works. James' use of the same examples, same words, and parallel structure clearly suggest that this was an intentional reply/rebuttal to Paul.
If anyone wants to suggest that, perhaps, the two passages have different root words in the original texts that just happened to pick up similar English equivalents by all these translators, then maybe we should look at the Greek source texts.
The same Greek word DIKAIOO is used by BOTH Paul AND James for the term justification (or "put right with God") in BOTH passages. While the Today's English Version does use a different term in their English translation, at least they apply it consistently in both Romans and James.
The same Greek word ERGON is used by BOTH Paul AND James for the term variously translated as works, deeds, actions, doing, or observing. While the English translators couldn't agree on the best term, both Paul and James were talking about the same thing. And, with the exception of the NIV, the translators of each version at least are consistent in their own usages between Paul and James. I wonder, however, about the objectivity of the NIV -- one of the most popular texts among conservative Christians -- in choosing to change the wording used between Paul and James in a way that subtly changes the connotation of Paul to be less in contradiction to James.
The same Greek word PISTIS is used by both Paul AND James for the word that all versions of both passages translated as "faith."
Refute the contradiction without creating a fictionalized story about what the Scripture means. If, as fundamentalists like to tell us, Scripture means what it says--then don't try to "spiritualize" it to mean what it doesn't say.
More than that, when Paul wrote words about ALL Scripture--the ONLY Scripture was the OT. There was no NT. And you are attributing Paul's words to Jesus--which is a great injustice to what the Scripture states. If Jesus had said it, the letter would have started "the letter of Jesus to----"
Anyone who fails to see some conflicts between Paul and Jesus just isn't reading Scripture carefully.
Umm, sorry to have to be the one to break this to you but Paul's message is not a kingdom on earth message and in fact is not supposed to be since the believers of the nations have a celestial/heavenly allotment for the next two oncoming eons.
Quote:
Paul was educated, wealthy, and had the means to travel. A far cry from the carpenter's son who strove to make a living day to day--and even taught us to pray asking only for the needs of the day.
Paul's message appeals to middle classes and those who are too immersed in their daily lives to do anything other than "have faith." While the best of his writing may provide some enlightenment, much of it is a far cry from the message of Jesus which was much stronger and required much more discipline of life.
The ignorant people who distort those writings of Paul are those who have to create fictionalized stories to make them "fit" with Jesus' teachings. Any person who quotes Paul consistently is generally a Paulinian--not a Christian.
Refute the contradiction without creating a fictionalized story about what the Scripture means. If, as fundamentalists like to tell us, Scripture means what it says--then don't try to "spiritualize" it to mean what it doesn't say.
More than that, when Paul wrote words about ALL Scripture--the ONLY Scripture was the OT. There was no NT. And you are attributing Paul's words to Jesus--which is a great injustice to what the Scripture states.
The ignorant people who distort those writings of Paul are those who have to create fictionalized stories to make them "fit" with Jesus' teachings. Any person who quotes Paul consistently is generally a Paulinian--not a Christian.
Refute the contradiction without creating a fictionalized story about what the Scripture means. If, as fundamentalists like to tell us, Scripture means what it says--then don't try to "spiritualize" it to mean what it doesn't say.
More than that, when Paul wrote words about ALL Scripture--the ONLY Scripture was the OT. There was no NT. And you are attributing Paul's words to Jesus--which is a great injustice to what the Scripture states. If Jesus had said it, the letter would have started "the letter of Jesus to----"
"Hisletters [Paul] contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."
1) By this above ^ God the Holy Spirit attributes Paul's letters as Scripture ... just like the OT writers.
2) There was NT ... ref the above. That was revealed by the Holy Spirit through Peter.
3) John (the last surviving Apostle) wrote about himself and the other Apostles (which btw included the Apostle Paul)
"We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us.
This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood."
So what does that say concerning those who like you and Mystic and others attacking (or by their silent approval of such) the very nature of the Bible?
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