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Old 02-22-2016, 03:33 PM
 
4,592 posts, read 2,272,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Imagine having a rich uncle who comes up to you one day and says, “I have really good news for you. I know you need a family car badly, so I bought you a really nice one!” Your jaw drops at the good news. But before you can thank him, he says, “It’s all yours...BUT you have to pay me monthly installments of $1,000 for it.”
Suddenly, what started out as “good news” doesn’t turn out to be good news after all. Why? Because it contains a big “BUT!” The “gift” isn’t genuine because it has a condition attached to it.
Sadly, this is how some people understand the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ. They’ve been told, “Yes, you are saved by God’s grace, BUT from now on, you have to make sure that you come to church, read your Bible, pray, serve, dress holy...to keep your salvation.” Like the car, salvation is not really a free gift—you have to merit it with “installments” of good works.
Beloved, good works are important, but they can’t save you. The only thing that can save you is the blood of Jesus. And when you put your faith in Jesus and His finished work, you were saved for all eternity, with no strings attached because grace is not grace if your works have any part to play in it (Romans 11:6)! That’s why the gospel of God’s grace is truly GOOD NEWS! And it is knowing and believing this that produces godly fruits of faith and righteousness in your life!
What happens to the salvation for those mentioned at Hebrews 6:4-6 ?

What did Jesus teach at Matthew 12:32 ?

What did Jesus half-brother James say at James 2:26 ?
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Old 02-22-2016, 03:43 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,559,868 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacegiver View Post
The good news is the word of God. That is why the son of man was sent, to spread the good news of the kingdom of God, the word of God.
He is the Word.
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Old 02-22-2016, 03:50 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,559,868 times
Reputation: 4461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
What happens to the salvation for those mentioned at Hebrews 6:4-6 ?
Context...context...context. Start in verse 1 - it's not our recognition of our sin (works of the flesh) but recognizing the finished work of Christ - the final sacrifice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
What did Jesus teach at Matthew 12:32 ?
Context...context...context. He was talking to Pharisees.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
What did Jesus half-brother James say at James 2:26 ?
Abraham believed God's promise, then obeyed when he took Isaac up Mt. Moriah.

He that hath an ear...
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Old 02-22-2016, 04:06 PM
 
4,592 posts, read 2,272,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Context...context...context. Start in verse 1 - it's not our recognition of our sin (works of the flesh) but recognizing the finished work of Christ - the final sacrifice.
Context...context...context. He was talking to Pharisees.
Abraham believed God's promise, then obeyed when he took Isaac up Mt. Moriah.
He that hath an ear...
First of all, the Bible was Not originally written in chapters and verses.

At Hebrew 6:1-6 uses the word ' impossible ' in verse 4

Matthew 12:31-32 mentions forgiven unto men. That would include everyone besides the Pharisees.

What does Mark 3:28-29 say regarding the sons of men ?

Agree, Abraham did believe in an earthly resurrection.
Isaac would have to be alive in order to have offspring, producing a seed leading to Messiah's coming.
So, by Abraham being willing to sacrifice Isaac, Abraham was showing his confidence in a physical resurrection.
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Old 02-22-2016, 04:07 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,439,975 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Correct. Luckily there are very few people who will claim that you will lose your salvation if don't dress holy. So few, that I have never met one.
We have never met but I truly do believe we are not saved by works but by grace.

The problem many believers have is when they try to mix the circumcision writings with the writings for the nations.
The Circumcision believers had to remain faithful to the end or they would not be saved.
The Uncircumcision believers of the nations are saved by faith (period).
Paul's epistle to the Galatians is a perfect example of what is wrong with mixing works with grace/faith.

This does not mean we should not be doing good works to help others and the family of faith. We should.
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Old 02-22-2016, 04:12 PM
Status: "Praise Be" (set 24 days ago)
 
Location: Trumpville
7,258 posts, read 3,290,490 times
Reputation: 6305
Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Imagine having a rich uncle who comes up to you one day and says, “I have really good news for you. I know you need a family car badly, so I bought you a really nice one!” Your jaw drops at the good news. But before you can thank him, he says, “It’s all yours...BUT you have to pay me monthly installments of $1,000 for it.”

Suddenly, what started out as “good news” doesn’t turn out to be good news after all. Why? Because it contains a big “BUT!” The “gift” isn’t genuine because it has a condition attached to it.

Sadly, this is how some people understand the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ. They’ve been told, “Yes, you are saved by God’s grace, BUT from now on, you have to make sure that you come to church, read your Bible, pray, serve, dress holy...to keep your salvation.” Like the car, salvation is not really a free gift—you have to merit it with “installments” of good works.

Beloved, good works are important, but they can’t save you. The only thing that can save you is the blood of Jesus. And when you put your faith in Jesus and His finished work, you were saved for all eternity, with no strings attached because grace is not grace if your works have any part to play in it (Romans 11:6)! That’s why the gospel of God’s grace is truly GOOD NEWS! And it is knowing and believing this that produces godly fruits of faith and righteousness in your life!
What about LGBT people?

Jesus loves you, BUT you have to change your orientation or remain single and lonely for life? Most same-sex attracted Christians will say that God fulfills all our needs and the church offers community and support, but that doesn't replace having another human being to spend your life with, and its also torture to be a part of a community that is so hostile towards LGBT people that you can't even be authentic within it. The 'Side B' gay Christian path is not easy because of the stigma and disgust most Christians have towards the LGBT community.

That's a huge cost and the good news isn't really good news at all.
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Old 02-22-2016, 04:13 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,439,975 times
Reputation: 989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
First of all, the Bible was Not originally written in chapters and verses.

At Hebrew 6:1-6 uses the word ' impossible ' in verse 4

Matthew 12:31-32 mentions forgiven unto men. That would include everyone besides the Pharisees.

What does Mark 3:28-29 say regarding the sons of men ?

Agree, Abraham did believe in an earthly resurrection.
Isaac would have to be alive in order to have offspring, producing a seed leading to Messiah's coming.
So, by Abraham being willing to sacrifice Isaac, Abraham was showing his confidence in a physical resurrection.
Heb 6:1-6 Wherefore, leaving the word dealing with the rudiments of Christ, we should be brought on to maturity, (not again disrupting the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith on God, (2) of the teaching of baptizings, besides the imposition of hands, and the resurrection of the dead, and of judgment eonian)." (3) And this will we be doing, that is, if God may be permitting." (4) For it is impossible for those once enlightened, besides tasting the celestial gratuity and becoming partakers of holy spirit, (5) and tasting the ideal declaration of God, besides the powerful deeds of the impending eon, (6) and falling aside, to be renewing them again to repentance while crucifying for themselves the Son of God again and holding Him up to infamy."

It is impossible to renew them again to repentance. It doesn't say it is impossible for them to ever be saved.



"2 Paul did not put baptism in the foundation of his evangel. He insisted that Christ had not sent him to baptize, but to evangelize (1 Co.1:17). Now there is only one baptism—that in spirit, which unites us into one body (Eph.4:5). In the kingdom proclamation, however, baptism in water was essential.
The imposition of hands for the conveyance of spiritual benefits especially through the apostles is also a characteristic of the kingdom economy.
There seems to be no reference here to the "resurrection from among the dead", but rather to resurrection in general, apart from which the kingdom cannot be set up. At that time will the saints in Israel awake and possess the kingdom promised to them in the prophets.
Eonian judgment characterizes the inception and progress of Messiah's reign. It begins with the severest judgments this earth has known.
These are the six foundation stones cast down by those who fell away among the Hebrews. They should have left them for maturity. Instead, they forsake them for apostasy. Instead of going back to Judaism, they would crucify again for themselves the Son of God.

"4 This description applies only to those who participated in the Pentecostal blessings. They were enlightened, they' tasted the celestial gratuity, they became partakers of holy spirit, and God's declaration, and they only experienced the powers of the kingdom eon, and many of them fell aside. These blessings were based on their repentance, or change of mind, which was induced largely by the miracles which they saw. When the kingdom failed to appear, and its powers vanished, their repentance went also. Hence the impossibility of renewing it, for the means which produced it were no longer in evidence. Such a course is not possible in a day of grace, such as we live in. In place of repentance and pardon, we have faith and justification, which know no falling away, being entirely of grace, from first to last" (Concordant Commentary on Hebrews 6:1,4).
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Old 02-22-2016, 04:40 PM
 
20,304 posts, read 15,661,748 times
Reputation: 7422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4 View Post
What happens to the salvation for those mentioned at Hebrews 6:4-6 ?
Nothing happens to their salvation. Eternal salvation is not in view in that passage. What is in view is an admonition to those being addressed by the writer of Hebrews not to fall away from the grace teaching they had been given and going back into a legalistic way of thinking. Many believers in the first century were under pressure from the Judaizers to follow the law of Moses. The Judaizers taught that you had to be circumcised in order to be saved. Paul speaks of this in Galatians 5. Acts 15 also addresses the subject.

A believer cannot fall away from his eternal salvation. What he can fall away from is the truth which he has been taught. To fall from grace is to reject grace thinking and go back into some system of legalistic thinking. And most believers who do this usually do not come back to a grace way of thinking. This is what the writer of Hebrews is warning his readers about. He had already stated that while they should have been teachers by that time, they instead were in need of again being taught the elementary principles of the oracles of God (Hebrews 5:12). They are dull of hearing, and the writer of Hebrews wants them to press on to maturity. There is no danger to their salvation. The only danger is that instead of becoming spiritually mature believers, they will remain spiritual infants.
Quote:
What did Jesus teach at Matthew 12:32 ?
Jesus was speaking to a group of unbelieving Pharisees and warning them of continued rejection of Him as manifested by their accusations that He was casting out demons under the power of Satan. This has nothing to do with a believer being able to lose his salvation.

Quote:
What did Jesus half-brother James say at James 2:26 ?
The dead faith of which James speaks is not a non-existent faith but simply a non-productive faith which produces no spiritual dynamics in the life of a believer who nevertheless is already eternally saved. James is urging believers to be productive in their spiritual lives. To be doers of the word and not merely hearers of the word. When James asked if a faith without works can save him (James 2:14) he is not referring to being saved from eternal condemnation, but of being saved from a useless spiritual life as a believer.

Many people, when they see the word 'saved,' immediately think in terms of eternal salvation. But the writers of scriptures do not always use 'saved' in that regard.

The emphasis in James is on having a productive spiritual life. Not on having to earn or maintain eternal salvation.
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Old 02-22-2016, 10:08 PM
 
4,221 posts, read 1,966,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
He is the Word.
Because He uses the word.

The son of man eats and drinks in the presence of God and the ways of the Most High to bring salvation to the poor and sight to the blind.
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Old 02-22-2016, 11:41 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,602 posts, read 5,123,928 times
Reputation: 3917
Quote:
Originally Posted by bawac34618 View Post
What about LGBT people?

Jesus loves you, BUT you have to change your orientation or remain single and lonely for life? Most same-sex attracted Christians will say that God fulfills all our needs and the church offers community and support, but that doesn't replace having another human being to spend your life with, and its also torture to be a part of a community that is so hostile towards LGBT people that you can't even be authentic within it. The 'Side B' gay Christian path is not easy because of the stigma and disgust most Christians have towards the LGBT community.

That's a huge cost and the good news isn't really good news at all.
Amen!!

But some of us believe in treating others as we wish to be treated. If I wish to marry and be faithful, I hope the same thing for gay people.

In a small group fellowship meeting just one week ago today, a woman felt secure enough to come out of her "comfort" zone (the discussion topic) to tell us her son is gay. Then one of the men in our group of eight, stated that when he called his mother to tell her he had gotten married (at age 45), she asked him if it was a woman!!

So, yes, the church and many who fill its pews have done a simply terrible job of confirming for gay people that the Good News is for them, too. The pastor of the small start-up church that sponsors these meetings said he had just read an article in his seminary class that, despite the horrendous way gays have been treated, 40% say they believe in the Christian God, and Jesus as His Son.

The Good News must be good for everyone or its good for no one.
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