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Old 02-25-2016, 12:23 PM
 
4,054 posts, read 3,711,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
Imagine having a rich uncle who comes up to you one day and says, “I have really good news for you. I know you need a family car badly, so I bought you a really nice one!” Your jaw drops at the good news. But before you can thank him, he says, “It’s all yours...BUT you have to pay me monthly installments of $1,000 for it.”

Suddenly, what started out as “good news” doesn’t turn out to be good news after all. Why? Because it contains a big “BUT!” The “gift” isn’t genuine because it has a condition attached to it.

Sadly, this is how some people understand the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ. They’ve been told, “Yes, you are saved by God’s grace, BUT from now on, you have to make sure that you come to church, read your Bible, pray, serve, dress holy...to keep your salvation.” Like the car, salvation is not really a free gift—you have to merit it with “installments” of good works.

Beloved, good works are important, but they can’t save you. The only thing that can save you is the blood of Jesus. And when you put your faith in Jesus and His finished work, you were saved for all eternity, with no strings attached because grace is not grace if your works have any part to play in it (Romans 11:6)! That’s why the gospel of God’s grace is truly GOOD NEWS! And it is knowing and believing this that produces godly fruits of faith and righteousness in your life!

God calls for us to be Holy and set apart form the world. Its your faith in Christ that is supposed to produce great works, so if you have no works, your faith is dead or if your works are terrible and steeped in sin, Jesus said in Matthew 7 its just lip service and will will say I never knew you.

-Person A has accept Jesus as their savior, but gets drunk, fornicates, cusses people out, lies, steals and they are fine for all eternity
-Person B hasnt accepted Jesus but gets drunk, fornicates, cusses people out, lies, steals and they are dammed for all eternity
-Person C hasnt accepted Jesus but doesnt lie, fornicate, curse people out or steal and they are dammed for all eternity

All 3 people are the same, except person A accepted Christ as his Savior as a teen (lip service) and lived no different than the Heathen Person B is who going to hell for rejecting Christ or Person C who lived a more Holy life than person A & B combined but is going to hell for rejecting Christ. So Person A is pretty much no different than the worldly Person B and if they die unrepentant, Jesus will say he never knew him, as he never was set apart even though he said the sinners prayer.
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Old 02-25-2016, 12:30 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,610 posts, read 5,125,761 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
-Person A has accept Jesus as their savior, but gets drunk, fornicates, cusses people out, lies, steals and they are fine for all eternity
-Person B hasnt accepted Jesus but gets drunk, fornicates, cusses people out, lies, steals and they are dammed for all eternity
-Person C hasnt accepted Jesus but doesnt lie, fornicate, curse people out or steal and they are dammed for all eternity
Which one would you marry? Which one would you want raising your children--an atheist as person C or a "saved" person as in person A?

Quote:
George Sodini, mass murderer and professed Christian Eternal Securist wrote; “Maybe soon, I will see God and Jesus. At least that is what I was told. Eternal life does NOT depend on works. If it did, we will all be in hell. Christ paid for EVERY sin, so how can I or you be judged BY GOD for a sin when the penalty was ALREADY paid. People judge but that does not matter. I was reading the Bible and The Integrity of God beginning yesterday, because soon I will see them.”
GEORGE SODINI

If you're lucky, SAAN, George will be your next door neighbor.
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Old 02-25-2016, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,520 posts, read 31,917,431 times
Reputation: 9413
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
God calls for us to be Holy and set apart form the world. Its your faith in Christ that is supposed to produce great works, so if you have no works, your faith is dead or if your works are terrible and steeped in sin, Jesus said in Matthew 7 its just lip service and will will say I never knew you.

-Person A has accept Jesus as their savior, but gets drunk, fornicates, cusses people out, lies, steals and they are fine for all eternity
-Person B hasnt accepted Jesus but gets drunk, fornicates, cusses people out, lies, steals and they are dammed for all eternity
-Person C hasnt accepted Jesus but doesnt lie, fornicate, curse people out or steal and they are dammed for all eternity

All 3 people are the same, except person A accepted Christ as his Savior as a teen (lip service) and lived no different than the Heathen Person B is who going to hell for rejecting Christ or Person C who lived a more Holy life than person A & B combined but is going to hell for rejecting Christ. So Person A is pretty much no different than the worldly Person B and if they die unrepentant, Jesus will say he never knew him, as he never was set apart even though he said the sinners prayer.
You don't know what Jesus will say to person A, or anyone.

Why do you call it 'lip service'? Maybe he was truly born again, but decades later something happened what caused him to stumble and live like that.

Or are you saying person A in your example was never born again?

Last edited by Finn_Jarber; 02-25-2016 at 12:51 PM..
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Old 02-25-2016, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Emmaus, PA
3,025 posts, read 2,063,843 times
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Since God determines who goes to Heaven and who doesn't, it is blasphemous for people to think that THEY can make that decision.
God decides if Person A goes to Heaven.
God decides if Person B goes to Heaven.
God decides if Person C goes to Heaven.
...and NOT you or I.
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Old 02-25-2016, 01:20 PM
 
20,318 posts, read 15,670,237 times
Reputation: 7433
Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
God calls for us to be Holy and set apart form the world. Its your faith in Christ that is supposed to produce great works, so if you have no works, your faith is dead or if your works are terrible and steeped in sin, Jesus said in Matthew 7 its just lip service and will will say I never knew you.

-Person A has accept Jesus as their savior, but gets drunk, fornicates, cusses people out, lies, steals and they are fine for all eternity
-Person B hasnt accepted Jesus but gets drunk, fornicates, cusses people out, lies, steals and they are dammed for all eternity
-Person C hasnt accepted Jesus but doesnt lie, fornicate, curse people out or steal and they are dammed for all eternity

All 3 people are the same, except person A accepted Christ as his Savior as a teen (lip service) and lived no different than the Heathen Person B is who going to hell for rejecting Christ or Person C who lived a more Holy life than person A & B combined but is going to hell for rejecting Christ. So Person A is pretty much no different than the worldly Person B and if they die unrepentant, Jesus will say he never knew him, as he never was set apart even though he said the sinners prayer.
If person A has truly received Jesus as Savior, that is, if he has believed that Jesus died for his sins, and that he rose again, with the result that he has placed his faith in Jesus for eternal life, then he is eternally secure regardless of how he lives his life afterward. While a person who has received Jesus as Savior should go on to produce works which are acceptable to God, just being eternally saved does not automatically mean that he will produce such works.

The ones to whom Jesus said He will say that He never knew them are those who have at least claimed to have done good works such as prophesying in Jesus' name, casting out demons in His name, and performing many miracles in His name (Matthew 7:21-23), but who nevertheless never actually trusted in Him for salvation.

Everyone sins, including Christians. Since Jesus paid the penalty for the sins of the entire world, including the sins that the believer commits after having been saved, sin is therefore not the issue in eternal salvation. The only issue is whether a person has trusted in the finished redemptive work of Jesus on the cross. If he has then he has eternal life and can never lose it.

Additionally, everyone, whether unbeliever or believer, has some amount of works in his life. The issue is whether the works are acceptable to God. Since the works of an unbeliever are based on his own relative and imperfect human righteousness they are not acceptable to God. His works will actually be the basis of his judgment at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15). The unbeliever's works will all be addressed at the great white throne for the purpose of showing that they are not sufficient to save him because they are the result of an imperfect human righteousness and therefore God cannot accept them. And God cannot accept the unbeliever because since he did not place his trust in Jesus he never received the imputation of Jesus' own perfect righteousness. And that is the issue in eternal salvation - whether you have been credited with the righteousness of Jesus or whether you have only your own imperfect righteousness.

As for the believer, at the judgment seat of Christ (this is not the great white throne judgment which is for unbelievers only) his works will either be found to be 'gold, silver, and precious stones' which are rewardable, or they will be found to be 'wood, hay, and straw' and burned up even though the believer himself will be saved (1 Corinthians 3:12-15; 2 Corinthians 5:10). Any work done by a believer when he is out of fellowship due to having sinned is work that is done by means of his human righteousness and is unacceptable to God. Those works will be burned up. But any work done by the believer while in fellowship is work done by means of the Holy Spirit and is rewardable at the judgment seat of Christ. The way the believer is restored to fellowship with God is by simply naming his sin to God as per 1 John 1:9. Since that sin was judged at the cross God forgives the sin when the believer simply admits (by naming or citing it) that he sinned. He is then graciously restored to fellowship. Being out of fellowship does not mean that the believer has lost his salvation. It simply means that his rapport with God has been interrupted by sin until such time as he confesses the sin to God.

Eternal salvation is a free gift which is received simply by trusting in Jesus. Eternal rewards on the other hand depend upon the believer's performance in this life after having been eternally saved. If the believer spends all of his time out of fellowship and sinning then he will lose out on the eternal rewards, but he cannot lose his eternal salvation.

The dead faith of which James spoke simply refers to the believer's spiritual life having no spiritual dynamics with regard to having a productive spiritual life after salvation. James was not saying that the person who has believed in Jesus but has no works was never saved, or that his eternal salvation is in jeopardy.
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Old 02-25-2016, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,282 posts, read 20,904,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Eternal salvation is a free gift which is received simply by trusting in Jesus. Eternal rewards on the other hand depend upon the believer's performance in this life after having been eternally saved. If the believer spends all of his time out of fellowship and sinning then he will lose out on the eternal rewards, but he cannot lose his eternal salvation.
Mike, could you explain what eternal salvation will look like for a person who receives no eternal rewards? I'm not arguing the point -- at least not yet -- but it sounds like you are using the phrase "eternal salvation" to mean nothing more than "avoidance of eternal damnation." Am I right in my assumption or not?
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Old 02-25-2016, 03:23 PM
 
20,318 posts, read 15,670,237 times
Reputation: 7433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Mike, could you explain what eternal salvation will look like for a person who receives no eternal rewards? I'm not arguing the point -- at least not yet -- but it sounds like you are using the phrase "eternal salvation" to mean nothing more than "avoidance of eternal damnation." Am I right in my assumption or not?
Hi Katzpur. Every believer in Christ Jesus in the Millennial kingdom and in the eternal state is going to be perfectly happy regardless of the degree of rewards he has or doesn't have. Everyone will enjoy the 'normal' or 'common' blessings that eternal life brings. But some believers are going to have greater rewards, and have greater rulership responsibilities in the Kingdom.

That there will be degrees of rewards both in the Millennial kingdom and in eternity is brought out by such passages as 2 John 1:8 where John warns his readers to not lose a full reward, and in Jesus' parable about some ruling over five cities and others over ten cities (Luke 19:12-27). Additionally, Jesus spoke about storing up treasure in heaven (Matthew 6:19-21). And of course there are passages such as 1 Cor. 3:12-15 and 2 Cor. 5:10 as well as Revelation chapters 2 and 3.

Obviously however, I can't tell you specific details about what eternal salvation will look like for a person with little or no rewards. All I can say, is that everyone is going to be happy with what they have. Everyone will be blessed, but some will have greater blessings and greater rewards than others. It depends on what the believer does with his spiritual life here on earth after having been saved and before his departure from this earth at the point of physical death.
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Old 02-25-2016, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,282 posts, read 20,904,862 times
Reputation: 9964
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Hi Katzpur. Every believer in Christ Jesus in the Millennial kingdom and in the eternal state is going to be perfectly happy regardless of the degree of rewards he has or doesn't have. Everyone will enjoy the 'normal' or 'common' blessings that eternal life brings. But some believers are going to have greater rewards, and have greater rulership responsibilities in the Kingdom.

That there will be degrees of rewards both in the Millennial kingdom and in eternity is brought out by such passages as 2 John 1:8 where John warns his readers to not lose a full reward, and in Jesus' parable about some ruling over five cities and others over ten cities (Luke 19:12-27). Additionally, Jesus spoke about storing up treasure in heaven (Matthew 6:19-21). And of course there are passages such as 1 Cor. 3:12-15 and 2 Cor. 5:10 as well as Revelation chapters 2 and 3.

Obviously however, I can't tell you specific details about what eternal salvation will look like for a person with little or no rewards. All I can say, is that everyone is going to be happy with what they have. Everyone will be blessed, but some will have greater blessings and greater rewards than others. It depends on what the believer does with his spiritual life here on earth after having been saved and before his departure from this earth at the point of physical death.
Thanks. Apparently our beliefs in this regard are not too terribly far apart.
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Old 02-25-2016, 03:27 PM
 
20,318 posts, read 15,670,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Thanks. Apparently our beliefs in this regard are not too terribly far apart.
You're welcome.
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Old 02-25-2016, 04:29 PM
 
4,054 posts, read 3,711,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
You don't know what Jesus will say to person A, or anyone.

Why do you call it 'lip service'? Maybe he was truly born again, but decades later something happened what caused him to stumble and live like that.

Or are you saying person A in your example was never born again?
In regards to lip service, what I am getting at is many people will say Person A was never really saved if he lived his life like that and then many others will say as long as Person A confessed and believed in his heart Jesus is Lord, he is going to heaven no matter how he lives.

Sadly, I know a ton of Person A Christian's that say they are saved, but have more sex than unbelivers and some even cheat on their spouse, extremely vulgar, get drunk all the time, will curse people out in a split second, so it makes you wonder can a person really be saved if they confess and believe, but their lifestyle is 100% opposite of what the bible says a follower of God should live and are really no different than all the unbelievers around them.
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