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Old 02-25-2016, 03:37 PM
 
4,041 posts, read 3,701,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
If person A has truly received Jesus as Savior, that is, if he has believed that Jesus died for his sins, and that he rose again, with the result that he has placed his faith in Jesus for eternal life, then he is eternally secure regardless of how he lives his life afterward. While a person who has received Jesus as Savior should go on to produce works which are acceptable to God, just being eternally saved does not automatically mean that he will produce such works.

The ones to whom Jesus said He will say that He never knew them are those who have at least claimed to have done good works such as prophesying in Jesus' name, casting out demons in His name, and performing many miracles in His name (Matthew 7:21-23), but who nevertheless never actually trusted in Him for salvation.

Everyone sins, including Christians. Since Jesus paid the penalty for the sins of the entire world, including the sins that the believer commits after having been saved, sin is therefore not the issue in eternal salvation. The only issue is whether a person has trusted in the finished redemptive work of Jesus on the cross. If he has then he has eternal life and can never lose it.

Additionally, everyone, whether unbeliever or believer, has some amount of works in his life. The issue is whether the works are acceptable to God. Since the works of an unbeliever are based on his own relative and imperfect human righteousness they are not acceptable to God. His works will actually be the basis of his judgment at the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15). The unbeliever's works will all be addressed at the great white throne for the purpose of showing that they are not sufficient to save him because they are the result of an imperfect human righteousness and therefore God cannot accept them. And God cannot accept the unbeliever because since he did not place his trust in Jesus he never received the imputation of Jesus' own perfect righteousness. And that is the issue in eternal salvation - whether you have been credited with the righteousness of Jesus or whether you have only your own imperfect righteousness.

As for the believer, at the judgment seat of Christ (this is not the great white throne judgment which is for unbelievers only) his works will either be found to be 'gold, silver, and precious stones' which are rewardable, or they will be found to be 'wood, hay, and straw' and burned up even though the believer himself will be saved (1 Corinthians 3:12-15; 2 Corinthians 5:10). Any work done by a believer when he is out of fellowship due to having sinned is work that is done by means of his human righteousness and is unacceptable to God. Those works will be burned up. But any work done by the believer while in fellowship is work done by means of the Holy Spirit and is rewardable at the judgment seat of Christ. The way the believer is restored to fellowship with God is by simply naming his sin to God as per 1 John 1:9. Since that sin was judged at the cross God forgives the sin when the believer simply admits (by naming or citing it) that he sinned. He is then graciously restored to fellowship. Being out of fellowship does not mean that the believer has lost his salvation. It simply means that his rapport with God has been interrupted by sin until such time as he confesses the sin to God.

Eternal salvation is a free gift which is received simply by trusting in Jesus. Eternal rewards on the other hand depend upon the believer's performance in this life after having been eternally saved. If the believer spends all of his time out of fellowship and sinning then he will lose out on the eternal rewards, but he cannot lose his eternal salvation.

The dead faith of which James spoke simply refers to the believer's spiritual life having no spiritual dynamics with regard to having a productive spiritual life after salvation. James was not saying that the person who has believed in Jesus but has no works was never saved, or that his eternal salvation is in jeopardy.
I agree with most of what you are saying, but where in the bible does it teach that after you accept Christ you are free to live as you please. God said through the entire OT to keep his commandments and Jesus repeats to keep the commandments and if you love him you will keep his commandments.

I know no one is perfect and we all fall short, and that is where the blood of Jesus covers us for all who accept the free gift of salvation, and that is what accept a believer and non believer apart, but Jesus himself warned about being luke warm and that he will reject you.
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Old 02-25-2016, 04:33 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,642,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
I agree with most of what you are saying, but where in the bible does it teach that after you accept Christ you are free to live as you please. God said through the entire OT to keep his commandments and Jesus repeats to keep the commandments and if you love him you will keep his commandments.

I know no one is perfect and we all fall short, and that is where the blood of Jesus covers us for all who accept the free gift of salvation, and that is what accept a believer and non believer apart, but Jesus himself warned about being luke warm and that he will reject you.
There are obviously consequences to the believer for disobedience. But loss of eternal salvation is not one of them. The wayward believer can come under severe divine discipline in time and can lose out on eternal rewards. Maximum divine discipline administered to the believer who refuses to respond to lesser discipline can even result in the believer being taken out of this life under maximum suffering, but he is still eternally saved.

The writer of Hebrews 12:4-7 states that the believer is disciplined as a son. And Jesus never said that He would reject a believer in the sense of being eternally condemned.

The reference to being lukewarm and as a result being spewed out of Jesus' mouth in Revelation 3:16 is addressed to the church in Laodicea which is representative of the attitude of many churches though out the church age and simply deals with divine discipline administered to any church which has lost its focus on, and zeal for Jesus. Loss of salvation to the individuals in such a church congregation is not in view, but Jesus is simply saying that such a church will be disciplined. Jesus goes on to say regarding such a church that 'Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent' (Rev. 3:19).

The believer's eternal security is not a license to sin. Sin has temporal consequences as in the previously mentioned divine discipline, as well as in loss of eternal rewards. But the believer will still go to be with the Lord when he dies.
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Old 02-25-2016, 06:17 PM
 
Location: RV Park
7,543 posts, read 11,552,547 times
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This thread is a perfect example of what is wrong with today's "Christianity".

Looking in the mirror, or your neighbor - everywhere but Christ.

Want holiness? Thank Him that He's made you holy and quit trying!
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Old 02-26-2016, 04:52 AM
 
Location: Miami, FL
58,482 posts, read 31,872,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
Sadly, I know a ton of Person A Christian's that say they are saved, but have more sex than unbelivers and some even cheat on their spouse, extremely vulgar, get drunk all the time, will curse people out in a split second, so it makes you wonder can a person really be saved if they confess and believe, but their lifestyle is 100% opposite of what the bible says a follower of God should live and are really no different than all the unbelievers around them.
Maybe they are saved, and maybe they just say they are. Who knows. There are people who say they are saved, but are not, and there are those who are saved, even thought you if you find it hard to believe it. There are also those who don't say anything, and you assume they are not saved, but they are.
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Old 02-26-2016, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,267 posts, read 20,872,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
There are also those who don't say anything, and you assume they are not saved, but they are.
Actually, I'd be a lot more inclined to assume someone was "saved" if he didn't make a point of telling me.
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Old 02-26-2016, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Emmaus, PA
3,020 posts, read 2,060,045 times
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NO ONE can claim that they are "saved".
NO ONE decides that they are going to Heaven.
Only God decides that.
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Old 02-26-2016, 08:48 AM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,642,764 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John F S View Post
NO ONE can claim that they are "saved".
NO ONE decides that they are going to Heaven.
Only God decides that.
1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.


The apostle John seems to disagree with you. As do the other apostles.

Eternal life is given to anyone who simply believes that Jesus died for their sins and rose again and has therefore trusted in Jesus alone for eternal life.

I am eternally saved, and I am going to heaven when I die.
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Old 02-26-2016, 08:59 AM
 
Location: Emmaus, PA
3,020 posts, read 2,060,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.


The apostle John seems to disagree with you. As do the other apostles.

Eternal life is given to anyone who simply believes that Jesus died for their sins and rose again and has therefore trusted in Jesus alone for eternal life.

I am eternally saved, and I am going to heaven when I die.
Since YOU have decided that you are going to Heaven, then you are committing the sin of blasphemy because you believe that you are better than God and you don't even need Him to make that decision.
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Old 02-26-2016, 09:09 AM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,642,764 times
Reputation: 7408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.


The apostle John seems to disagree with you. As do the other apostles.

Eternal life is given to anyone who simply believes that Jesus died for their sins and rose again and has therefore trusted in Jesus alone for eternal life.

I am eternally saved, and I am going to heaven when I die.
Quote:
Originally Posted by John F S View Post
Since YOU have decided that you are going to Heaven, then you are committing the sin of blasphemy because you believe that you are better than God and you don't even need Him to make that decision.
How sad for you that you don't believe what God has communicated through the writers of the Scriptures. You were just shown what the apostle John said about being able to know that you have eternal life, and you ignore it.

God's decision is that anyone who believes on His Son has eternal life.

John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

That should be plain enough to understand.

Eternal life is a free gift which is received through faith in Christ Jesus. There are no strings attached. Jesus told the Samaritan woman that if she simply asked for eternal life it would be given to her (John 4:10).

Last edited by Mike555; 02-26-2016 at 09:18 AM..
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Old 02-26-2016, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,201 posts, read 14,096,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John F S View Post
Since YOU have decided that you are going to Heaven, then you are committing the sin of blasphemy because you believe that you are better than God and you don't even need Him to make that decision.

What's gotten into you today?
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