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Old 02-26-2016, 11:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post

Do you or do you not set limits for what your kids can and cannot do?
We set age-appropriate limits. We instilled values and morals. We weren't the controlling, fearful, hidebound parents who denied our children experiences because we thought the Girl Scouts were destroying the moral fiber if America.
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Old 02-26-2016, 12:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
We set age-appropriate limits.
FINALLY! You answered it!

Good for you. So do I. And that's all the RCC is suggesting here. There are limits to what we should and should not allow our children to participate in. You disagree? Good for you. You have that right. But we only get to make that decision for our own kids.
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Old 02-26-2016, 12:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
FINALLY! You answered it!
Lol.....says the guy who ducks, dodges and avoids question after question in thread after thread.

You should start answering questions yourself if you think every.single.question must be answered.

p.s. There is a difference between a church saying "You should not put your girls in scouting!" and a parent deciding which activities are right for their child.

Do you tell the people who listen to you preach which activities they should put their children in?
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Old 02-26-2016, 01:51 PM
 
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"D.D.I" think there is a significant difference between the catholic diocese in question SUGGESTING that the G.S. may be inappropriate for Catholic girls because of certain policies (which the bishop appeared to do) and FORBIDDING them to support the G.S. in cookie sales or anything else (which he did NOT). here's an important quote from the linked article that appears to be from the church:


"EVERY person must act in accord with THEIR consciences. it is ALSO our duty to form our consciences and learn the issues."


(followed by some potentially relevant information on how much of the money from cookie sales goes to the national G.S. and how much stays with the local chapter AND the reasonable and charitable advice to NOT discuss this matter with the young girls doing the selling but to have any such discussions with responsible adults in the organization). on the face of it those same two rather innocuous but important sentences quoted above could just have easily be found on something put out by "the league of women voters" LOL!!!


FWIW, and IMHO, statements like these doesn't sound either that imperative in tone or coercive in content by the church to it's members.


I would suggest that the church has not overstepped any legal, ethical, or philosophical line in bringing this situation up to it's members as a potentially serious matter BUT still has NOT made any demands on or given any instructions to those members to do ANYTHING except follow their "informed" consciences----which is what I believe most everyone on either side of this thing (or any other situation of a similar nature) would want to do.


folks may not like the stance taken by the church for a variety of potentially good reasons but IMHO it' hard to really fault it for exercising it's LEGAL rights to free speech and what it (not unreasonably) considers it's MORAL rights to advise it's members on what it (right, wrong, or indifferent) considers an important matter while AGAIN still NOT forbidding it's members in any manner, shape, or form the right to do as they please.


peace to you, to me and to all sides in this thing.

Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 02-26-2016 at 02:19 PM.. Reason: more info.
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Old 02-26-2016, 02:16 PM
 
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True, George, the archbishop can use the First Amendment and his position in the Church to urge parents to avoid any organization that might teach Catholic girls to grow up to be empowered women. I know the Church isn't keen on things like empowering females. I wasn't aware that buying Girl Scout cookies was something a Catholic should avoid but... whatever. He seems to think a box of delicious Thin Mints is a baaaaad thing if it's sold by a Catholic Girl who is learning how to count change. (I buy a lot of Thin Mints and say "Well done!" to any girl who can add in her head.)

Personally I think the archbishop should worry about things like taking care of the poor and disenfranchised. I've been in St Louis. Heck....I've been in EAST St. Louis which is full of impoverished people living in housing I wouldn't put a dog in. Hopefully the archbishop issues statements urging Catholics to donate to food banks, vote yes on school bonds and volunteer with Habitat for Humanity. He could also speak out about the murder rate in East St Louis which is one of the most violent cities in our country....since he's pro-life and all. But that's my opinion and I'm not sitting in a nice, comfy archbishop's chair, getting three squares a day and issuing press releases about the evils of Thin Mints.

Last edited by DewDropInn; 02-26-2016 at 02:51 PM..
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Old 02-26-2016, 02:54 PM
 
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that first amendment is a powerful thing it protects the bishop's speech (both inside and out of his church) and it also in the same way and degree protects your speech supporting whatever cause you so choose and the speech of those organizations who you might support and me and my favorite pressure groups as well. when that amendment stops doing those things even if it just stops it for the organizations, peoples, and causes you (or I) don't like we will likely eventually ALL be in trouble.


yes, the bishop can morally and legally RIGHTFULLY urge people to do certain things and yes, you as an individual and/or member of a group of like-minded folks can also RIGHTFULLY urge people to do certain things---especially the opposite to whatever he and the church may be "pushing"---that's how (thank heavens) this crazy country works. the moment one opinion (even if it's only voiced by those repressive benighted "catlickers") is not allowed is the moment this country stops working.


I'm sure that my good and fair-minded forum friend D.D.I. would never want that to happen because I know she believes in the both the right of people to make their own choices AND the right of organizations/groups/political parties (yes, even "churches") to give direction and advice to those people affiliated with them to help (not coerce) them make "good" choices---even if she doesn't agree with the advice given or the choices made (which is what I think the good bishop in the topic under discussion at least sincerely thinks he's trying to do).


don't think the fear of "empowered women" thing is part of his statement but he DID bring up the DUTY for people to follow their consciences which IMHO is the ULTIMATE empowerment for ALL people regardless of gender.


FWIW, my guess is that the diocese and it's individual parishes along with other groups like Catholic Charities and Catholic Relief Services is right there in the trenches with other charitable-minded groups religious and otherwise about feeding the hungry and sheltering the homeless and similar assistance to those in need as we are specifically admonished and commanded by Christ to do---it's the Catholic thing, the Christian thing, and the HUMAN thing to do.


a glance at the diocesan website will easily help find info and links to a variety of ministries and activities to help people physically, mentally, and spiritually they sponsor for folks of all kinds and of all religious (or lack of) persuasions from infancy to old age.


peace.

Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 02-26-2016 at 03:36 PM..
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Old 02-26-2016, 03:01 PM
 
19,952 posts, read 13,009,160 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
p.s. There is a difference between a church saying "You should not put your girls in scouting!" and a parent deciding which activities are right for their child.
If a parent considers themselves to be Catholics and they care what their church teaches, they should care in this instance.
Quote:
Do you tell the people who listen to you preach which activities they should put their children in?

I have spoken about certain organizations in the past, and Christians being involved in them or not. That does not include Girl Scouts.
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Old 02-26-2016, 03:38 PM
 
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George, I'm well aware of the charitable works done by Catholics. Just as I'm aware of the charitable works done by LDS, Jews, Mennonites and people of numerous other faiths. And by non-believers.

I did look at the website for the archdiocese. The first thing that popped up was the Girl Scout issue. It's Lent, the Year of Mercy and thousands of kids in the greater St Louis area will go to bed hungry tonight....but I guess the Girl Scouts are top priority at the Archdiocese of St Louis. ****sigh****
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Old 02-26-2016, 03:55 PM
 
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no, not at all. when you looked at the website you also found links to charitable activities and projects that the diocese is involved with (often in conjunction with groups like you mentioned) INCLUDING feeding the hungry kids of St. Louis) and has been involved with before, during, and after this particular brouhaha.


that this whole mess gets (temporary) top billing on the website indicates nothing more than that it's current events that is of potential interest to those who hit the website and it does NOT stop all the other acts of charity and mercy that the church there is trying to do (and which you just said you were well-aware of).


surprising as it might be, most of the time (for better or for worse) the church in its head and members is able to "multi-task" it can both advocate, educate, promote, and otherwise push all sorts of things in "the market place of ideas" for both it's members and the society in general AND continue to do other things like feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, etc., etc.


IMHO and FWIW, Christianity is about believers engaging in and with the rest of world by word and deed (hopefully to make the world a better, kinder, gentler, more "Christ-like" place---and sometimes they actually do get it right and sadly sometimes not) not simply withdrawing into a corner and mumbling prayers and platitudes and hoping no one will notice it or the opinions and beliefs that motivate it's actions. .





best wishes and may God bless us both.

Last edited by georgeinbandonoregon; 02-26-2016 at 04:21 PM..
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Old 02-26-2016, 04:04 PM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,411,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by georgeinbandonoregon View Post


surprising as it might be, most of the time (for better or for worse) the church in its head and members is able to "multi-task" it can both advocate, educate, promote, and otherwise push all sorts of things in "market place of ideas" for both it's members and the society in general AND continue to do other things like feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, etc., etc.


best wishes.
I'm able to navigate the website. And I'm well versed in what the Catholics are doing. Trust me on that.

I'm not anti-Catholic. I'm anti-making a big deal about membership in the Girl Scouts when there are kids going hungry and there is rioting in the streets because of living conditions in and around St. Louis. Maybe I'll check to see what the archbishop said about Ferguson.
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