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Old 02-26-2016, 12:33 PM
 
741 posts, read 271,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
Many also leave as told in Luke 9:5

If people (the church) do not welcome you, leave their town (church) and shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them."
Jesus doesn't seem to be talking about a church exactly. He was speaking about any person that doesn't welcome the message of the Good News. However, I guess if a person finds that their church is not accepting the Good News of God's Kingdom, then yes, I say shake the dust off your feet. Still, there is no reason to think the scripture above is just singling out churches. We could also shake the dust off our feet if we find ourselves in the company of just one person that has any particular belief or no belief at all. In other words, if a person or a whole city doesn't accept it then let them be and move on.
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Old 02-26-2016, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Divided Tribes of America
12,913 posts, read 4,926,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jowel View Post
But isn't a lot of that really caused by rebellion by people living on their own for the first time? For instance, couldn't the same be said about children feeling "forced" to eat their broccoli, so when they go off to school, they eat junk food all the time because they can. And for a while it's fun and tastes good. But when they find they've gained 50 pounds and feel cruddy, they realize that eating broccoli may not be such a bad idea after all. Couldn't the same apply to the church and the spiritual foundation it provides (the key being that the church needs to provide a "nutritious" spiritual foundation)?
Conservative Christians often assume that people leave the faith because they are "in rebellion against God," but remember that the idea that "we are all in rebellion against God" is a conservative Christian doctrine. Non-believers don't believe there is a god to rebel against, am I right?

Are you willing to consider the possibility that people leave conservative Christianity for more rational reasons?

When you stopped believing in Santa, was it because you wanted to rebel against Santa? Or did you stop believing for other reasons?

Last edited by Freak80; 02-26-2016 at 01:47 PM..
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Old 02-26-2016, 02:37 PM
 
7,859 posts, read 6,666,416 times
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Best way is to regularly invite Jesus Holy Spirit into meetings and give people the living God experience , as have leaders and people pray for anyone and show the gifts of Holy Spirit for all including Sunday morning meetings and Sunday school , have the people bring testimony of what Jesus is doing today in people lives ............ Invite anointed preachers to come and give a Word of God and then have prayer for anyone to come up and receive prayer , as Jesus river of God will come in when people who are not regular attendants of the church and preach and pray....................Teach the kids to kick the devil and demons out of their life through God grace of Jesus blood and the kids will get delivered from demons and have a better insight with Christ .................. Bring in a doctrine of truth , which Kids will be attracted to , as there is deception through out the world and the truth would be a rebellion against the lies of the world .................. See church should be the place to be when the people love God and are delivered from the world spirits through Jesus Christ , as when the people bring Jesus Spirit home and everywhere they go as saved people then they will endure in Christ forever .................. Having the kids live a pious life in legalism always looking over the shoulder of others watching Christians condemning and judging people for their righteousness, then without God the kids will move on and turn their back on the church and God they did not know .............Key invite Jesus Holy Spirit into the church instead of Judging Holy Spirit
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Old 02-26-2016, 02:45 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,548 posts, read 6,999,363 times
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As to the OP; yes, as soon as fundamentalism dies it's richly deserved and imminent death.
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Old 02-26-2016, 02:54 PM
Status: "Praise Be" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Trumpville
7,258 posts, read 3,282,394 times
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Fundamentalist Christianity teaches conformism at all costs and to never question the doctrine of the church. People are individuals and when they get out into a pluralistic society where so many do not share their beliefs, their belief system tends to crumble.

The creation/evolution debate is a microcosm of what many young people experience with Christianity at large when they go off to college and afterwards as they form their own beliefs. Young-earth creationism doesn't hold up to scientific scrutiny so many people who go into college believing young-earth creationism come out believing evolution. The same can be applied to many of the other doctrines taught by the church, one of the most damaging being the doctrine of separation.

Politics from the pulpit is another big one. While there are exceptions, as a generation Millennials are significantly more liberal on social issues than their baby boomer parents. The focus in many churches on reactionary social conservatism can be a huge turnoff to the younger generation. Its in fact for this reason I have had issues going to church since the SCOTUS decision on gay marriage.
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Old 02-26-2016, 03:03 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 5,732,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Christianity is not based on activity in the choir, or participation in the youth group. It's about knowing Jesus. 1 John 2:19 says that people leave because they were never OF US...meaning that they did not know Christ. They simply got bored of the religious activity and left.

We can't force the kids to love Jesus. They will, or they won't. We can certainly instruct them and teach them about Jesus, but ultimately, it's up to them.
I think you are aware of comments I had made of a pastor friend of mine whose D.Div thesis is on exploring why PKs (Pastor's Kids) leave the church and faith. It's not published yet, but at least part of it is that the children just don't believe the woo (my words, not his) anymore.

They want to see more than, "because its in the Bible" as answers to questions, and they don't accept, "well, you just have to have faith, and God in your heart" as a fallback.

Some of this is reflected in the Barna Group's surveys, but keep in mind, they only surveyed the pastors, not the children of them. The answers may be different, and my friend is going into much greater detail.

https://www.barna.org/barna-update/f...act-or-fiction

Unless or until churches can show why they are truly relevant in today's world, this trend will continue. It is also why you see so many pastors who become doubtful, and eventually turn atheist, because they cannot reconcile the words they preach with realities on the ground.

For any pastors reading this, if you ever feel the need to talk about your disbelief, there is a support organization for you. They have a strong screening process, so people like me can not join... you really have to be a pastor/minister.

It is:

Current & Former Religious Professionals Not Believing In The Supernatural

Visio, you may want to keep it for future reference if you ever feel the need.
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Old 02-26-2016, 03:19 PM
Status: "Praise Be" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Trumpville
7,258 posts, read 3,282,394 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
I think you are aware of comments I had made of a pastor friend of mine whose D.Div thesis is on exploring why PKs (Pastor's Kids) leave the church and faith. It's not published yet, but at least part of it is that the children just don't believe the woo (my words, not his) anymore.
Preacher's kids get the worst of it. Not only is everything church forced on them their entire lives, but they have to maintain a perfect image in order to not jeopardize their father's ministry. I don't know about other denominations but in the IFB church, if the pastor's kid misbehaves or commits a sin, that reflects on the father. It's very emotionally and psychologically taxing and many of them reach a point where they've had enough.
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Old 02-26-2016, 03:46 PM
 
19,952 posts, read 12,970,063 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
I think you are aware of comments I had made of a pastor friend of mine whose D.Div thesis is on exploring why PKs (Pastor's Kids) leave the church and faith. It's not published yet, but at least part of it is that the children just don't believe the woo (my words, not his) anymore.
Not immediately familiar with it, no. But I do know that PKs are still kids. There is nothing special about me that guarantees my kids will know Christ. They need to make their faith their own.
Quote:
They want to see more than, "because its in the Bible" as answers to questions, and they don't accept, "well, you just have to have faith, and God in your heart" as a fallback.
I can understand that. I've never really been that kind of guy that just says that. I didn't believe for that reason and I wouldn't expect others to just accept it blindly.
Quote:
Some of this is reflected in the Barna Group's surveys, but keep in mind, they only surveyed the pastors, not the children of them. The answers may be different, and my friend is going into much greater detail.

https://www.barna.org/barna-update/f...act-or-fiction

Unless or until churches can show why they are truly relevant in today's world, this trend will continue. It is also why you see so many pastors who become doubtful, and eventually turn atheist, because they cannot reconcile the words they preach with realities on the ground.
I wonder what the ratio of Bible-teaching, or Bible-believing churches to liberal churches it is. If a church is just kind of going through the motions and the pastor doesn't actually believe that the Bible is Truth....why would the kid want to? In any event, I imagine the denomination or type of church it is might really have an impact on the results.
Quote:
For any pastors reading this, if you ever feel the need to talk about your disbelief, there is a support organization for you. They have a strong screening process, so people like me can not join... you really have to be a pastor/minister.

It is:

Current & Former Religious Professionals Not Believing In The Supernatural

Visio, you may want to keep it for future reference if you ever feel the need.
No thanks. My sister once told me 25 years ago it was just a phase I was going through and I'd just wake up and realize it was a lie. That hasn't happened yet and I don't see it happening.
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Old 02-26-2016, 04:55 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 5,732,020 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Not immediately familiar with it, no. But I do know that PKs are still kids. There is nothing special about me that guarantees my kids will know Christ. They need to make their faith their own.

I can understand that. I've never really been that kind of guy that just says that. I didn't believe for that reason and I wouldn't expect others to just accept it blindly.

I wonder what the ratio of Bible-teaching, or Bible-believing churches to liberal churches it is. If a church is just kind of going through the motions and the pastor doesn't actually believe that the Bible is Truth....why would the kid want to? In any event, I imagine the denomination or type of church it is might really have an impact on the results.


No thanks. My sister once told me 25 years ago it was just a phase I was going through and I'd just wake up and realize it was a lie. That hasn't happened yet and I don't see it happening.
It is my understanding, that results show the more 'fundamentalist' a denomination is, the higher the number of PKs who do not take up the faith of their fathers. It makes sense to me.
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Old 02-26-2016, 05:15 PM
 
Location: GOVERNMENT of TRAITORS & NAZIS
20,560 posts, read 22,728,017 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
Jesus doesn't seem to be talking about a church exactly. He was speaking about any person that doesn't welcome the message of the Good News. However, I guess if a person finds that their church is not accepting the Good News of God's Kingdom, then yes, I say shake the dust off your feet. Still, there is no reason to think the scripture above is just singling out churches. We could also shake the dust off our feet if we find ourselves in the company of just one person that has any particular belief or no belief at all. In other words, if a person or a whole city doesn't accept it then let them be and move on.
Its a metaphor and a metaphor can be applied to many situations...
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