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Old 02-27-2016, 07:24 PM
Status: "Praise Be" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Trumpville
7,258 posts, read 3,277,493 times
Reputation: 6300

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Not all creationists believe in a literal 6-day creation.
True..but it's important to distinguish between Creationism(TM) which does teach a literal six-day creation 6,000 years ago, and other forms of creationism that allow for an old earth and God-influenced evolution. The latter is unfalsifiable, while the former goes against everything we know from modern science.
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Old 02-27-2016, 07:28 PM
 
4,851 posts, read 1,461,384 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Why do you think a creator could not work millions of years?


I don't deny that a creator couldn't . But how many creationists believe in a universe billions of years old ?

And why do you avoid answering my question about how many branches of science creationist have to deny to accept creationism ?

You are following the same pattern of avoidance here that you had with the discussion earlier . Is there something about what you believe you are afraid to answer to?
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Old 02-27-2016, 07:31 PM
Status: "Build the damn wall!" (set 4 days ago)
 
Location: The Haunted Mansion
15,126 posts, read 8,222,812 times
Reputation: 1543
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
I don't deny that a creator couldn't . But how many creationists believe in a universe billions of years old ?

And why do you avoid answering my question about how many branches of science creationist have to deny to accept creationism ?

You are following the same pattern of avoidance here that you had with the discussion earlier . Is there something about what you believe you are afraid to answer to?
My Bible study class has about 15 adults, ages 55-80. More than half of us reject YEC.
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Old 02-27-2016, 07:40 PM
 
4,851 posts, read 1,461,384 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
My Bible study class has about 15 adults, ages 55-80. More than half of us reject YEC.
And yet you still won't answer my question.

And define rejecting YEC . How old is the universe ? Where did humans come from? Was there a Great Flood ? Are we cousins to other primates ? How did life arise ?
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Old 02-27-2016, 07:43 PM
Status: "Even better than okay" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
51,187 posts, read 50,480,930 times
Reputation: 60062
It's nothing new. I stopped going to church around 18 or 19, and the only reason I lasted that long was because I had a cousin my own age. We would smoke pot and go to the evening service.

Some return to Christianity. Some do not. Some who never grew up in church at all find their way there later.
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Old 02-28-2016, 05:45 AM
 
1,286 posts, read 2,166,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAAN View Post
Random articles like these look into the problem.

Youth Exodus Problem - Cross Examined - Christian Apologetic Ministry | Frank Turek | Christian Apologetics | Christian Apologetics Speakers

The Real Reasons Young Adults Drop Out of Church | The Exchange | A Blog by Ed Stetzer

5 Possible Reasons Young Americans Are Leaving Church and Christianity Behind | TheBlaze.com



I have seen it myself at my church for over 20 years, as these youth sang in the childrens choir, was in Sunday school, every church play, accepted Jesus as a teen and by time they are over 18 and go off to college 2/3 never come back and when they do, they are a completely different person spiritually.

I know the adults lead by example, so if grown ups are late to church all the time, why should a child then young adult want to come on time either. If many of the adults dont read their bibles, there is no way they can answer a young adults question other than say go ask the pastor.


Can anything be done to reverse this trend or this is just the future or Christian youth?
Can something be done? Yes. Will something be done? I doubt it.
What to do? Stop entertaining them and start teaching them. Teach them who God is, and who he isn't. He is the supreme and sovereign creator, he is not Santa Claus, or your friend, as teens define the term friend.

So what's the stat...70-80%, right? How many of those are in public school? Sorry, but "if we continue to send our kids to Caesar for their education, we need to stop being surprised when they come home as Romans." (Dr, Voddie Baucham, Jr.) I too don't believe that you can force spiritual matters down their throats, but to teach them anything other than biblical truth is flirting with disaster. The devil owns the fence, so stop sitting on it and pick a side.
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Old 02-28-2016, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,540 posts, read 6,992,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electron View Post
Can something be done? Yes. Will something be done? I doubt it.
What to do? Stop entertaining them and start teaching them. Teach them who God is, and who he isn't. He is the supreme and sovereign creator, he is not Santa Claus, or your friend, as teens define the term friend.

So what's the stat...70-80%, right? How many of those are in public school? Sorry, but "if we continue to send our kids to Caesar for their education, we need to stop being surprised when they come home as Romans." (Dr, Voddie Baucham, Jr.) I too don't believe that you can force spiritual matters down their throats, but to teach them anything other than biblical truth is flirting with disaster. The devil owns the fence, so stop sitting on it and pick a side.
Apply more pressure, right?



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Old 02-28-2016, 09:09 AM
 
Location: On the Edge of the Fringe
4,633 posts, read 3,728,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electron View Post
Can something be done? Yes. Will something be done? I doubt it.
What to do? Stop entertaining them and start teaching them. Teach them who God is, and who he isn't. He is the supreme and sovereign creator, he is not Santa Claus, or your friend, as teens define the term friend.

So what's the stat...70-80%, right? How many of those are in public school? Sorry, but "if we continue to send our kids to Caesar for their education, we need to stop being surprised when they come home as Romans." (Dr, Voddie Baucham, Jr.) I too don't believe that you can force spiritual matters down their throats, but to teach them anything other than biblical truth is flirting with disaster. The devil owns the fence, so stop sitting on it and pick a side.
Why not start with what is most important: Mental health.

Many southern baptist churches engage in activity which can be defined as spiritual/religious abuse. (Abuse by any other name, is still "abuse")

I cannot say that "All" churches do, because I have not been to all churches. But I have witnessed it over and over again in the ones I have attended. Of course, the degree varies, but a healthy person, who has self esteem and self love, will not engage in such activity. Most of us know that self hate is the basis for Christian fundamentalism. Hatred of self, belief that a person is evil, flawed, "sinful" and that the only way a person can overcome this is through "Jesus", WHO IS represented exclusively by ....First Baptist Church, Second Baptist Church, Westboro Baptist church, Central street Church of Christ, St Judas Iscariot Catholic church....etc etc etc


Perhaps the biggest thing the kids find when they go off to college is self esteem and self love? Sure happened to me. Outside of any Christian religion of course. Self love and self espteem is neither tauight nor encouraged in the Baptist church.
Which is, on a side note, why I explained to my son that Buddhism is a healthier philosophy than Christianity. See my post in the Buddhist thread.

Seriously, adults in these churches have more mental social issues than I will list here. I see it through my work almost every day. (Almost every day because I do not work on Wednesdays)
All that is happening is that kids are wising up and moving on. Natural social development. Most of the world did it collectively with the Renaissance, but those individuals who have lives based in fear and self loathing still find a spot to continue Christian mythology.

As for the Devil, there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that any such entity or creature exists. Perhaps it is time to let go of the collective myth of such a being, remove the concept of the devil from the psyche so as not to be distracted with living one's life sully. Which is after all , ALL that matters in Life.

Which too is what those of us who quit the Baptist church long ago continue to do on a daily basis, especially on Sundays. The biggest slap in the face I can give the Baptists is to go on and have a successful and happy life without them, while they wallow in self pity and fear. Amen to me.
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Old 02-28-2016, 10:48 AM
 
4,851 posts, read 1,461,384 times
Reputation: 1571
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electron View Post
Can something be done? Yes. Will something be done? I doubt it.
What to do? Stop entertaining them and start teaching them. Teach them who God is, and who he isn't. He is the supreme and sovereign creator, he is not Santa Claus, or your friend, as teens define the term friend.

So what's the stat...70-80%, right? How many of those are in public school? Sorry, but "if we continue to send our kids to Caesar for their education, we need to stop being surprised when they come home as Romans." (Dr, Voddie Baucham, Jr.) I too don't believe that you can force spiritual matters down their throats, but to teach them anything other than biblical truth is flirting with disaster. The devil owns the fence, so stop sitting on it and pick a side.



So basically , hide your children from the real world and hope to forever keep them properly indoctrinated and ignorant of reality .

I'll extend this question out to all since the one it was originally posed to didn't feel up to answering . How many branches of science ( the study of reality) must a person deny or ignore to believe in creationism ?
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Old 02-28-2016, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,574 posts, read 5,111,549 times
Reputation: 3914
Quote:
Originally Posted by Electron View Post
Can something be done? Yes. Will something be done? I doubt it.
What to do? Stop entertaining them and start teaching them. Teach them who God is, and who he isn't. He is the supreme and sovereign creator, he is not Santa Claus, or your friend, as teens define the term friend.

So what's the stat...70-80%, right? How many of those are in public school? Sorry, but "if we continue to send our kids to Caesar for their education, we need to stop being surprised when they come home as Romans." (Dr, Voddie Baucham, Jr.) I too don't believe that you can force spiritual matters down their throats, but to teach them anything other than biblical truth is flirting with disaster. The devil owns the fence, so stop sitting on it and pick a side.
Yep, it all started with those godless words penned by Joseph Scriven in the late 1800's:

What a friend we have in Jesus,
All our sins and griefs to bear!
What a privilege to carry
Everything to God in prayer!
Oh, what peace we often forfeit,
Oh, what needless pain we bear,
All because we do not carry
Everything to God in prayer!

Everything began going downhill after that.

The surest way to create a "liberal" christian, if not an outright apostate from the public schools--is to have them read the Bible sans a "fundamentalist handler" standing over them "explaining" it all to them.

Conservative Christians can be too sure they're right about everything. It's too easy, when you're a conservative, to boil down what you believe into a really simple set of assertions, and to then never again question or allow those assertions to evolve. Then it just becomes about rules; then it's too easy to make everything about who is and isn't on the right side of right. When it comes to something as complex as God and history, it's too easy for "keeping it simple" to become "keeping it stupid"---which too easily becomes "keeping it mean-spirited." Conservatives have a troubling propensity for closing their minds.

Quote:
“Many on the Christian Right are fond of posing the question WWJD?-- What would Jesus do? I’d like to remind them what Jesus DID do: He cared for the poor. He did not condemn the woman caught in adultery. He prayed alone. He commanded us to love our enemies. He preached peace. He ate, drank, and lived with ‘tax collectors and sinners’ -- the lowlifes and outcasts of his day, while reserving his condemnation for the religious leaders who, from a place of privilege, imposed their legalism and literalism on the people they were responsible for leading. He told his disciples not to oppose the healing work of those outside the ranks of his followers. And again and again he reminded us to care for the poor. (That moral issue gets more air time than any other in the gospels: 1 verse in 9.) If Christians concerned about how to respond to the grave global issues facing us all were to reread the Gospels for guidance, I think we’d find some pretty clear indications there about what Jesus would do ... and what he wouldn’t. (One of the few bumper stickers I’ve been tempted to affix to my still undecorated car in recent months reads ‘Who would Jesus bomb?’)
Marilyn Chandler McEntyre, Professor of English at Westmont College, Santa Barbara, California, in her article “A Voice from the Christian Left.”

Don't worry about those stats---God is just proving to you He is alive and well and working through human beings in exactly the same way that He worked through the authors of the Bible--regardless of our foibles today OR those of yesterday.
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