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View Poll Results: Who gets your loyality first?
Almighty God 22 81.48%
Your Country 5 18.52%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-08-2016, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,282 posts, read 20,911,116 times
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My first loyalty goes to my conscience.
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Old 03-09-2016, 08:16 AM
 
741 posts, read 271,995 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Choir Loft View Post
There are two types of war - defensive and aggressive.

The first type is fought to preserve one's home, family, and community. The second type is fought to steal the property of another nation, to gain some sort of national advantage, or simply to enlarge the bank accounts of leadership.

To be blunt about it, the United States is currently engaged in the second type of warfare - aggressive. We are fighting endless wars across the globe to enhance the financial positions of large corporations - the 'military industrial complex' as President Eisenhower called it. Propaganda feeds the lie that America does this as a form of self-defense, but unfortunately that is the lie that every aggressor empire has told its citizens since the beginning of time. Some things never change. Americans generally believe the lie, including but not limited to Christians of every denomination.

But what should a disciple of Christ do? Follow Jesus' example of course.

Jesus NEVER pledged His allegiance to the Roman Empire.
Jesus NEVER supported Roman troops (or Jewish rebels either).
Jesus NEVER saluted a political banner or gave affirmation to any political entity.

Jesus DID pay the taxes that were appropriately due.
Jesus DID obey the law of the land both Jewish and Roman.
Jesus DID follow His conscience, which ultimately got him arrested and killed.

What should the disciple of Christ do?

The true Christian should NOT pledge his allegiance to the flag or to the fascist police state for which it stands.
(The pledge of allegiance was not used for most of American history. It was only implemented during the 1930's, the period of time when fascist leaders first attempted to overthrow the American government.(1) It is no coincidence that the first salute to the American flag was identical to the straight arm German salute also stipulated by the National Socialist German Worker's Party in Europe.)

The true Christian should NOT support the troops which are in fact the military extension of corrupt political policy in America.

The true Christian should NOT give affirmation or support to political organizations that promote fascist policy - in 2016 that means Republicans and Democrats, two heads of the same snake.

The true Christian should pay all appropriate taxes and obey the law of the land wherever such laws do not conflict with his or her conscience regarding how they live their lives before God (usually defined by the 10 commandments).(2)

The fact that American Christians are brainwashed into accepting politically correct policies and declarations instead of those of the Bible should tell the dispassionate reader a lot about our nation. It has wholly corrupted itself and has defied the throne of heaven.

IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA, HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.
- Shanghai curse August 1937


and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

(1) Google the life and times of General Smedley D. Butler
(2) Some municipalities have declared the 10 commandments to be illegal, thus making it ok for politicians to dip their fingers into the public funds. When God's law is usurped, honesty becomes an historic footnote for a nation.
There is a great deal here I agree with. Especially that part about the parties being two heads of the same snake. When I heard this, it reminded me of John's vision of the scarlet colored seven headed wild beast with ten horns in Revelations chapter 17. Which many reason that the beast is representing the nations of the world and on the back of the beast is the harlot. The harlot representing false religion. All heads of the same beast. Yet in just about every nation somehow people think their nation is not part of the beast, that for now is being influenced by the harlot rider. A rider that every day is getting closer to be being tossed off as she loses more and more support because she is being exposed for who she is. Just like what the quoted poster above has brought out.
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Old 03-09-2016, 01:41 PM
 
37,579 posts, read 25,275,797 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
My first loyalty goes to my conscience.
That would be God, Katz.
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Old 03-09-2016, 06:34 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,282 posts, read 20,911,116 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
That would be God, Katz.
In a manner of speaking, yes, it would. But I believe that atheists, too, have a conscience, and when they follow it, they are following something inborn and not something that they learned in a religious setting. Mormon doctrine is that every human being is born with "the light of Christ." This is essentially what most people would call your "conscience." It is not synonymous with God but it comes from Him.

What I was actually thinking when I posted my response was that I am, in many way, a pretty atypical Mormon. I know my Church's doctrines inside and out, and I am a practicing member of my religion. Still, I see a lot of things (social issues primarily) differently than does my Church's hierarchy. Take the issue of same-sex marriage, for instance. My Church opposes it. For this reason alone, most Mormons also oppose it. To them, loyalty to God means loyalty to His Church. Since I strongly believe in the separation of church and state, I am not opposed to same-sex marriage -- in that I don't believe I should have the right to impose my own moral choices on other people. As one LDS journalist put it, "Some Mormons do hear the call of conscience more loudly than any political prescriptions from the church." I'm one of those Mormons. So, when I answered the question, I was thinking in terms of it meaning more along the lines of "Who does your loyalty go to first, your church or your country?"
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Old 03-09-2016, 08:45 PM
Status: "Phlegmatic." (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
23,406 posts, read 12,106,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
...snip... So, when I answered the question, I was thinking in terms of it meaning more along the lines of "Who does your loyalty go to first, your church or your country?"
Neither would rank in my top 2, though I get that some people (Americans, mostly) think otherwise.

I believe loyalty belongs to oneself, loved ones, fellow inhabitants of the planet, the planet, and life itself over any man-constructed institution.
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