U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Who gets your loyality first?
Almighty God 22 81.48%
Your Country 5 18.52%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-01-2016, 03:40 PM
 
741 posts, read 271,216 times
Reputation: 62

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post

Justified warfare is not contrary to the command to ''love your enemies.''


Hilarious!

An image of a bomb blowing people to bits with 'we love you' written on the side just popped into my head. Do you understand what you are saying? I've heard some whoppers in my time but this one takes the taco. I invite you to tell this to all the women that lost sons and husbands. To parents that lost their children. To the parents that lost their infants. While people are starving to death. Go please, tell them that you love them. It's absurd. It's as if you don't even know what war is.

You must present a Bible scripture from the Christian Greek Scriptures with the command to kill enemies. It's all I will accept. You have to do all this 'explaining' and mental acrobatics. I just have to point to the words of Jesus in the Bible.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-01-2016, 03:52 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,642,764 times
Reputation: 7408
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post


Hilarious!

An image of a bomb blowing people to bits with 'we love you' written on the side just popped into my head. Do you understand what you are saying? I've heard some whoppers in my time but this one takes the taco. I invite you to tell this to all the women that lost sons and husbands. To parents that lost their children. To the parents that lost their infants. While people are starving to death. Go please, tell them that you love them. It's absurd. It's as if you don't even know what war is.

You must present a Bible scripture from the Christian Greek Scriptures with the command to kill enemies. It's all I will accept. You have to do all this 'explaining' and mental acrobatics. I just have to point to the words of Jesus in the Bible.
You have the article I provided which explains why justified warfare is not contrary to loving your enemy.

Read that. You won't. And we're done.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-01-2016, 04:05 PM
 
4,569 posts, read 2,266,902 times
Reputation: 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post

Hilarious!
An image of a bomb blowing people to bits with 'we love you' written on the side just popped into my head. Do you understand what you are saying? I've heard some whoppers in my time but this one takes the taco. I invite you to tell this to all the women that lost sons and husbands. To parents that lost their children. To the parents that lost their infants. While people are starving to death. Go please, tell them that you love them. It's absurd. It's as if you don't even know what war is.
You must present a Bible scripture from the Christian Greek Scriptures with the command to kill enemies. It's all I will accept. You have to do all this 'explaining' and mental acrobatics. I just have to point to the words of Jesus in the Bible.
Jesus and his first-century followers were always politically neutral in the affairs of the world.
Even within the issues of the day between the Jews verses the Romans their stand was neutral.
Jesus taught to lay down weapons - Matthew 26:52; Revelation 13:10
The weapons of Christian warfare are Not carnal but spiritual - 2nd Corinthians 10:4 - with spiritual armor - Ephesians 6:11-17
However, Jesus is Not a pacifist because Jesus believes in God's final war of Armageddon.
According to Revelation 19:11 Jesus is a righteous warrior. Jesus carries on war in righteousness.
That means No one innocent will be in harm's way.
Please Notice at Isaiah 11:3-4 and Revelation 19:11,14-15 it is the ' executional words ' from Jesus' mouth that will do away with the wicked being destroying forever - Psalm 92:7
The birds are used according to Revelation 19:17-19
As Jeremiah wrote the wicked will be as manure on the surface of the ground - Jeremiah 25:31-33

Back in the first century Jesus told his followers to flee out of Jerusalem when Jerusalem would be surrounded by armies. Four years later after the armies withdrew then they came back, and what Jesus said came to pass in the year 70 when the Roman armies destroyed unfaithful Jerusalem.
That siege is what is referenced at Luke 19:14,27; Luke 20:43-44; Luke 21:20-22

We are now nearing the soon coming ' time of separation ' on earth as mentioned at Matthew 25:31-33,37.
Righteous people can remain alive on earth, and continue to live on earth right through the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14, and they can continue living right into Jesus' 1,000-year governmental rulership over earth, when Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will usher in global Peace on Earth among men of goodwill.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-01-2016, 04:16 PM
 
4,569 posts, read 2,266,902 times
Reputation: 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
To a Christian it ought to be God. At least that's how the apostles viewed it. They were criticized for not declaring Caesar to be "Lord".
Having said that, I thank the men and women that serve our country and I tell them so when I meet one. I have tremendous respect for them, and often wonder if maybe I should have gone into the military out of high school.
Even when the people wanted to put Jesus in political office ( make him king ) Jesus declined - John 6:15
Nowhere is it written that Jesus and his 1st-century followers even became involved in the issues of the day between the Jews verses the Romans, but they were always neutral in worldly affairs.

In light of Jesus words to his followers at Matthew 26:52; Revelation 13:10, how does one justify military service ?
What kind of military uniform does a Christian wear according to Ephesians 6:11-17?
What kind of weapons does a Christian carry according to 2nd Corinthians 10:3-4 ?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-01-2016, 06:07 PM
 
Location: GOVERNMENT of TRAITORS & NAZIS
20,560 posts, read 22,721,792 times
Reputation: 7625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
As is the case with so many, you show no objectivity when faced with views contrary to your own. You have already been shown from Scripture that justified war is legitimate. I have also stated that during His public ministry Jesus was silent on the issue and so, no, I do not have to show you a commandment from the 'Christian Greek Scriptures' where it says to go to war. You have been shown from the Old Testament that God commanded war at times. The principle of justified warfare has not changed.

And I have sent you to a source other than the Bible which explains from the Bible that defensive war is justified and that the verses that you are using to support your argument, actually do not. I take it from your reply that you will not even bother to read it. That demonstrates a lack of objectivity on your part, and an unwillingness to learn.

Justified warfare is not contrary to the command to ''love your enemies.'' That too is addressed in the article to which I have sent you. But since you won't bother to read it, neither will I bother to explain it to you.

I send you once again to the article. Read it or don't. That's up to you.

http://www.ptm.org/uni/resources/PDF...tiansFight.pdf

And with that, this discussion has gone on long enough. I have no desire to spend my time arguing with closed minds.
So the whole THOU SHALL NOT KILL was just a metaphor and actually means MURDER , WHEN IT IS JUSTIFIED is QUITE OK WITH GOD..

By whose justification? Does god send a western union?

So god telling me to KILL that homeless LGBT dude is justified?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-01-2016, 06:14 PM
 
10,498 posts, read 4,137,043 times
Reputation: 1192
1) god- liberty for all people. For me just means something more important then just me and mine. I do not think my kids are any more important than anybody else's

2) country

3)religion- people's emotional connection to their surroundings. Like ice-cream, don't force a personal emotional need down any body throat.

try telling me that that every single life "must be" saved because some liberal is afraid. Why does this liberal make everybody pay and pay? I always think of the next victim, lady liberal can't see that far through their tears of fear.

who decides? we do, thats who. Not making a choice is a choice.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-01-2016, 07:56 PM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,642,764 times
Reputation: 7408
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
So the whole THOU SHALL NOT KILL was just a metaphor and actually means MURDER , WHEN IT IS JUSTIFIED is QUITE OK WITH GOD..

By whose justification? Does god send a western union?

So god telling me to KILL that homeless LGBT dude is justified?
Exodus 20:13 actually does refer to murder. Killing in self-defense or in defense of another, killing in justified warfare, and capital punishment of criminals for certain crimes is justifiable. Capital punishment was first ordained by God in Genesis 9:5-6 long before the Mosaic Law was given to Israel in which the death penalty was given for certain crimes.

God who said, 'you will not murder,' also commanded the death penalty for certain crimes, as well as the killing of the enemy in war.


And your given example is a foolish twisting of the principle. God is not going to tell you to kill some homeless person, LGBT or not. If you murdered a person, LGBT or not, you yourself would merit the death penalty. If however, that person, LGBT or not, was intent on killing you then you would be justified in using whatever amount of force was necessary, including lethal force, to defend yourself.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-01-2016, 09:30 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,822 posts, read 9,811,723 times
Reputation: 1300
Being that God tells us:
1) Submission to authorities because government is established by God for his purpose Romans 13

2) A Time for everything Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 which ends with "a time for war, and a time for peace"

The truth is it is out of love for God that if your country goes to war and you're asked to serve, you do so.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-01-2016, 10:11 PM
 
17,915 posts, read 9,843,391 times
Reputation: 17400
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Being that God tells us:
1) Submission to authorities because government is established by God for his purpose Romans 13

2) A Time for everything Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 which ends with "a time for war, and a time for peace"

The truth is it is out of love for God that if your country goes to war and you're asked to serve, you do so.
If that is a valid interpretation of Romans 13, then it is as valid for a Christian in China or North Korea as it is for a Christian in America. It means that an Iranian Christian called to some future war against Israel is bound by your interpretation of Romans 13 to fight for the Iranians.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-02-2016, 02:54 AM
 
Location: GOVERNMENT of TRAITORS & NAZIS
20,560 posts, read 22,721,792 times
Reputation: 7625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Exodus 20:13 actually does refer to murder. Killing in self-defense or in defense of another, killing in justified warfare, and capital punishment of criminals for certain crimes is justifiable. Capital punishment was first ordained by God in Genesis 9:5-6 long before the Mosaic Law was given to Israel in which the death penalty was given for certain crimes.

God who said, 'you will not murder,' also commanded the death penalty for certain crimes, as well as the killing of the enemy in war.


And your given example is a foolish twisting of the principle. God is not going to tell you to kill some homeless person, LGBT or not. If you murdered a person, LGBT or not, you yourself would merit the death penalty. If however, that person, LGBT or not, was intent on killing you then you would be justified in using whatever amount of force was necessary, including lethal force, to defend yourself.
Most of which were totally ignorant--stoning for adultery, stoning working the Sabbath, "witchcraft, and a few other inane "crimes."
Isn't it GREAT that Jesus CHANGED all that and we are ni longer under the LAW!!!


OT EXCUSES to kill your neighbor

Religious practices
Sacrificing to gods other than YHWH

Passing children through the fire to/as.
The triconsonantal root MLK has traditionally been translated as if it were the name of an otherwise unattested deity - Moloch - but may just describe a type of sacrifice. It is generally thought that this refers to a form of human sacrifice similar to that of which the Phoenicians (particularly in Carthage) have historically been widely accused. However, the Septuagint reads "You shall not give your seed to serve a ruler", suggesting that the root M-L-K should be more properly rendered as 'king/ruler'.
Worshiping Baal Peor.

False prophecy.

Necromancy, according to the Masoretic Text; specifically those who are masters over ghosts (Hebrew: Ba'al ob) and those who gain information from the dead (Hebrew: Yidde'oni).
The Septuagint instead condemns gastromancy (Greek: eggastrimuthos), and enchantment (Greek: epaoidos).
According to the Masoretic Text, practitioners of kashaph - incanting maleficium. According to the Septuagint version of the same passages, pharmakeia - poisoners. Historically this passage has been translated into English using vague terminology, condemning witchcraft in general.

Blasphemy

Sabbath breaking

Sexual practices

Rape by a man of a betrothed woman in the countryside

Being either participant in consensual sexual activity, in which a betrothed woman consensually loses her virginity to a man

Adultery with a married woman.

Marrying one's wife's mother

Certain forms of incest, namely if it involves the father's wife or a daughter-in-law.
Other forms of incest receive lesser punishment; sexual activity with a sister/stepsister is given excommunication for a punishment; if it involves a brother's wife or an uncle's wife it is just cursed and sexual activity with an aunt that is a blood relation is merely criticized.

Male on male sexual intercourse. Certain sexual activities between males (Hebrew: zakhar) involving what the Masoretic Text literally terms lie lyings (of a) woman (Hebrew: tishkav mishkvei ishah), and the Septuagint literally terms beds [verb] the woman's/wife's bed (Greek: koimethese koiten gynaikos); the gender of the target of the command is commonly understood to be male, but not explicitly stated. The correct translation and interpretation of this passage, and its implications for Homosexuality in Judaism and Homosexuality in Christianity, are controversial. Translations into English are wide-ranging.

Bestiality

Prostitution by the daughter of a priest

Miscellaneous

Murder, believed by Jews to apply to non-Jews, or (Noachides) as well

Smiting a parent

Cursing (i.e. repudiating) a parent

A son who persists in disobeying his parents

Kidnapping

Contempt of court

False witness to a capital crime
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top