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View Poll Results: Who gets your loyality first?
Almighty God 22 81.48%
Your Country 5 18.52%
Voters: 27. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-29-2016, 07:51 AM
 
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When nations war against each other, should a true Christian join the fight in a war? If they do, then how will they explain to Jesus that they killed one of his followers? While on the Earth, Jesus could've amassed an army and fought the Romans for Israel but he didn't. Why not? How far should a person go in following Jesus Christ footsteps?
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Old 02-29-2016, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Gulf Coast Texas
26,203 posts, read 14,100,551 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
When nations war against each other, should a true Christian join the fight in a war? If they do, then how will they explain to Jesus that they killed one of his followers? While on the Earth, Jesus could've amassed an army and fought the Romans for Israel but he didn't. Why not? How far should a person go in following Jesus Christ footsteps?
How did Israel attain the land that they have? They went to war - led by the Lord.

Jesus did not fight the Romans. Why? It was not the will of the Father. It was the will of the Father for Jesus to die and be raised from the dead - not to fight the Romans.

Relate to the Father and Son daily. Follow them through the Holy Spirit. If a situation of war arises - going to war may or may not be what He wants.
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Old 02-29-2016, 08:29 AM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,647,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
When nations war against each other, should a true Christian join the fight in a war? If they do, then how will they explain to Jesus that they killed one of his followers? While on the Earth, Jesus could've amassed an army and fought the Romans for Israel but he didn't. Why not? How far should a person go in following Jesus Christ footsteps?
There is no conflict between being a Christian and fighting for your Country in war in order to defend life and freedom. Defensive war is legitimate. And there is much more to Jesus than what can be discerned by confining your picture of Jesus to what the four Gospels record of His public ministry during His first advent. In both Revelation 19:13-21 and Zechariah 14:3 it is Jesus who goes to war against the nations who are gathered against Jerusalem. And Jesus will literally kill them with the word (the sword) of His mouth. One of Jesus' titles is 'Lord of hosts' which is literally 'Lord of the armies.' Jesus had a very specific mission to accomplish during His first advent. And He fulfilled that mission. But you cannot ignore the fact that it was the pre-incarnate Jesus who commanded Israel to go into battle for the purpose of defending themselves.
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Old 02-29-2016, 09:03 AM
 
741 posts, read 271,341 times
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Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
There is no conflict between being a Christian and fighting for your Country in war in order to defend life and freedom. Defensive war is legitimate. And there is much more to Jesus than what can be discerned by confining your picture of Jesus to what the four Gospels record of His public ministry during His first advent. In both Revelation 19:13-21 and Zechariah 14:3 it is Jesus who goes to war against the nations who are gathered against Jerusalem. And Jesus will literally kill them with the word (the sword) of His mouth. One of Jesus' titles is 'Lord of hosts' which is literally 'Lord of the armies.' Jesus had a very specific mission to accomplish during His first advent. And He fulfilled that mission. But you cannot ignore the fact that it was the pre-incarnate Jesus who commanded Israel to go into battle for the purpose of defending themselves.
There is no command to us in Revelation or anywhere in the Bible that Jesus gave his disciples the command to go to war for any nation. Also armies don't always mean a group used for war in the Bible. It just means a large group of people. Like on Psalms 68:11 that speaks of a large army or host of women, not fighting but proclaiming good news. Revelation does speak of an army for war though, true enough. But where does it say that army is? Verse 14 says, "the armies in HEAVEN". Not Earth. Also that passage calls out wrath on ALL nations. That includes whatever nation you are in now. Are you still sure you want to fight for a nation that Jesus himself will fight against?

1 Peter 2:21 says the Jesus LEFT us an example that we should follow in his steps. The example LEFT was the one on Earth. So what was LEFT behind by Jesus? So yes, we must confine our picture of Jesus to what he left behind while on Earth. The Bible confirms this in 1 Peter 2:21.

Remember Luke 6:27? "But I say to you who are listening: Continue to love your enemies, to do good to those hating you." This is a commandment, so yes there is a conflict in going to war with an enemy.

"By this all will know that you are my disciples-If you have love among yourselves." - John 13:35
You can't show love of your fellow Christians by shooting them and blowing them up. For those that support war or go to war what are they are distinguishing themselves to be?
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Old 02-29-2016, 09:12 AM
 
741 posts, read 271,341 times
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Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
How did Israel attain the land that they have? They went to war - led by the Lord.

Jesus did not fight the Romans. Why? It was not the will of the Father. It was the will of the Father for Jesus to die and be raised from the dead - not to fight the Romans.

Relate to the Father and Son daily. Follow them through the Holy Spirit. If a situation of war arises - going to war may or may not be what He wants.
If war is what Jesus wanted, wouldn't it have been left behind as an example to follow? 1 Peter 2:21 says, "In fact, to this course you were called, because even Christ suffered for you, leaving a model for you to follow his steps closely." Verse 23 goes on to say, "When he was being insulted, he did not insult in return. When he was suffering, he did not threaten." Isn't this a good example to follow?
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Old 02-29-2016, 09:14 AM
Status: "Amused by BF." (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Neither.
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Old 02-29-2016, 09:17 AM
 
Location: GOVERNMENT of TRAITORS & NAZIS
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NONE of the above.

Personally, my "loyalty" or concern is with my neighbors..God and country are arbitrary concepts that change with the one doing the interpretation.
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Old 02-29-2016, 09:20 AM
 
Location: GOVERNMENT of TRAITORS & NAZIS
20,564 posts, read 22,728,017 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
There is no conflict between being a Christian and fighting for your Country in war in order to defend life and freedom. Defensive war is legitimate. And there is much more to Jesus than what can be discerned by confining your picture of Jesus to what the four Gospels record of His public ministry during His first advent. In both Revelation 19:13-21 and Zechariah 14:3 it is Jesus who goes to war against the nations who are gathered against Jerusalem. And Jesus will literally kill them with the word (the sword) of His mouth. One of Jesus' titles is 'Lord of hosts' which is literally 'Lord of the armies.' Jesus had a very specific mission to accomplish during His first advent. And He fulfilled that mission. But you cannot ignore the fact that it was the pre-incarnate Jesus who commanded Israel to go into battle for the purpose of defending themselves.
Isn't the other side also fighting for life and freedom?

How does god-in-the-Howitzer-tank pick what side He supports????
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Old 02-29-2016, 09:23 AM
 
Location: GOVERNMENT of TRAITORS & NAZIS
20,564 posts, read 22,728,017 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
How did Israel attain the land that they have? They went to war - led by the Lord.

Jesus did not fight the Romans. Why? It was not the will of the Father. It was the will of the Father for Jesus to die and be raised from the dead - not to fight the Romans.

Relate to the Father and Son daily. Follow them through the Holy Spirit. If a situation of war arises - going to war may or may not be what He wants.
Going to war is how Israel STOLE the land..The mythological story says god-in-the real-estate-office-of-Keller-Williams gave them the land---but Israel turned out to be so oppositional and defiant, god-in-the real-estate-office transferred title to the Palestinians...


Israel all but ABANDONED the land long before the 7 year war to steal it.
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Old 02-29-2016, 09:37 AM
 
20,299 posts, read 15,647,071 times
Reputation: 7409
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Timothy316 View Post
There is no command to us in Revelation or anywhere in the Bible that Jesus gave his disciples the command to go to war for any nation. Also armies don't always mean a group used for war in the Bible. It just means a large group of people. Like on Psalms 68:11 that speaks of a large army or host of women, not fighting but proclaiming good news. Revelation does speak of an army for war though, true enough. But where does it say that army is? Verse 14 says, "the armies in HEAVEN". Not Earth. Also that passage calls out wrath on ALL nations. That includes whatever nation you are in now. Are you still sure you want to fight for a nation that Jesus himself will fight against?

1 Peter 2:21 says the Jesus LEFT us an example that we should follow in his steps. The example LEFT was the one on Earth. So what was LEFT behind by Jesus? So yes, we must confine our picture of Jesus to what he left behind while on Earth. The Bible confirms this in 1 Peter 2:21.

Remember Luke 6:27? "But I say to you who are listening: Continue to love your enemies, to do good to those hating you." This is a commandment, so yes there is a conflict in going to war with an enemy.

"By this all will know that you are my disciples-If you have love among yourselves." - John 13:35
You can't show love of your fellow Christians by shooting them and blowing them up. For those that support war or go to war what are they are distinguishing themselves to be?
Jesus Christ is God. It was the pre-incarnate Jesus who commanded Israel to go to battle when it was necessary to do so. Jesus is the Lord of the armies and that included Israel. God instructed Moses to draft for the Israelite army all eligible males 20 years of age and older (Numbers 1:2-3; 26:2-4).

No, we cannot confine our picture of Jesus to 'what He left behind on earth'. There is much more to Jesus than what is contained in the Gospels.

Until Jesus returns there will be wars and rumors of wars, and nations must be militarily prepared to defend themselves. And believers have a dual citizenship. The believer has a citizenship in heaven, but he is also a citizen of the country in which he lives. As such, he has certain obligations to his country. One being an obligation to defend his country against aggressors.

If you object to believers going to war when necessary on the grounds of being a conscientious objector that's between you and the Lord, but many Christians understand that there is no conflict between being a Christian and going to war when necessary.
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