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Old 03-01-2016, 05:33 PM
Status: "More than chromosomes." (set 8 days ago)
 
Location: Anderson, IN
4,071 posts, read 1,147,728 times
Reputation: 2485

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Holy brain-scrambling snit. That is a lot of drama. I would have left a long time ago. I have zero tolerance for drama. Incessant bickering like this happens in a lot of churches, which is one of the reasons I refuse to go. I'd rather be among the "least of these", spending time with them. I'd bail, Opie.
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Old 03-01-2016, 05:42 PM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,351,992 times
Reputation: 32238
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekigurl View Post
Holy brain-scrambling snit. That is a lot of drama. I would have left a long time ago. I have zero tolerance for drama. Incessant bickering like this happens in a lot of churches, which is one of the reasons I refuse to go. I'd rather be among the "least of these", spending time with them. I'd bail, Opie.
My goodness, you're sensible.
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Old 03-01-2016, 05:48 PM
 
1,473 posts, read 1,015,460 times
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...how could a Pastor of any intelligence have a Christmas Eve service only at 11pm!...and I thought Sunrise services on Easter were a questionable idea
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Old 03-01-2016, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,595 posts, read 5,120,460 times
Reputation: 3917
Many years ago I heard a "liberal" Bible professor tell this story in NT class about being a pastor:

"Never in all my years as a pastor did I have more than 10% of the congregation really in my corner. Nor did I have more than 10% solidly against my pastorate. Neither of these two groups caused me any worry. It was the 80% who were sitting around waiting to see who was going to win that worried me constantly."

The only thing that I find questionable about the new pastor the OP mentioned is the fact that donating clothes to a shelter to "doing it ourselves" sounds a lot like that Pharisee seeking attention by praying in public so people would see him.

Any church that needs a spotlight, or which doesn't have a ministry beyond its own walls, isn't worth attending let alone supporting.
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Old 03-01-2016, 07:51 PM
Status: "Amused by BF/V." (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
23,346 posts, read 12,079,766 times
Reputation: 10650
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
My goodness, you're sensible.
Indeed.

Could almost pass for a Pagan.

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Old 03-02-2016, 12:53 AM
 
1,489 posts, read 612,566 times
Reputation: 293
God is drawing you, OP, into a deeper relationship with Him. The servile relationship of 'pastor' to 'flock' and vice versa in the current church system won't satisfy you, and this is why God has brought you to this place. He must be the shepherd of your soul, and you won't look to man anymore to provide that which only He can provide.
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Old 03-02-2016, 06:59 AM
 
575 posts, read 827,944 times
Reputation: 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post



How did this pastor get hired? Was it the elders? A pulpit search committee? Is there a reason they didn't see it coming ?

My question to this point was, "Is it just him, or are the elders in agreement with the changes?"

It really seems to me that the elders needed to put him in his place long ago. Or the search committee should have done a better job vetting him as a candidate. It just doesn't sound like a good fit. Your church wasn't prepared for him -- and he wasn't prepared for the type of ministry in your church.



.

This new pastor was hired by a search committee formed from long-time members and leadership of the church. Incidentally, all who were on that search committee, have now departed the church, in disagreements of varying nature with the pastor they sought out and hired.

There were some of the elders on that search committee.

As to the question is it just him or are the elders in agreement with the changes. There is only one elder at this point, new to the role. There were, formerly, 4 elders. They have all stepped down from that role in disagreement(s) with the pastor. 2 of the elders left the church entirely. 2 remain as long-time members but are no longer elders. We have another gentleman that stepped up and has been made an elder within the past six months. Prior to that we had no one acting in that role for many months.

Yes I agree the elders should have put him in his place long ago. I think that was the disagreement that initiated all 4 elders stepping down. I think 2 of them were ready to put the pastor on notice, and 2 were not, feeling he should be given more time. No agreement/consensus there, and other discord, they all stepped down from that role, all at once. That left no one in that role, at all for months. We now have a new elder, but what is being done, if anything, to reign in some of what is seen as the pastor being a bully, ... if anything? It's unclear. Is this new elder in complete agreement with the pastor and his whims? I can only assume he must be, because there hasn't been any evidence of change, not yet anyway.

My husband, who is a deacon at this church, tells me, the elder is aware there are problems, and that he is working with the pastor on ... shall we say (my words, not the elder's words) "People Skills". The inner workings of how that is done, not known to the common member there, as it should be.

I agree the search committee did a poor job in their selection. I wish I'd been on that team, to know what the thinking/reasoning was, in hiring this particular individual. It seems apparent to me, that he has spent his career (he is in his young 40's) working with youth. A whole different dynamic than running the entire church and dealing with adults. I think perhaps, a better choice, might've been someone who has acted in an associate or assistant pastor role for some time. Thereby, one might assume, that person has had exposure to working with adults, and differing personalities and mindsets.

I have reached out to the one lone elder that we have, in an email, to express my dismay as we continue to watch the membership of our church disintegrate and at the feet of disagreement with the pastor. As of this point, have not heard back.

As I said in the beginning, this is all new to me. I didn't ask for all this turmoil. I joined a loving church with members of the church all so warm and welcoming, and many outreach programs that one could participate in with their brothers and sisters in serving Christ, spreading God's word. Almost all of those people are now gone. Many of them, at the feet of disagreements with the pastor.

Is it not incumbent upon a good minister/pastor to at least take into account the membership that is there/present? Do they discard people as easily as appears to be the case here?

We have had a long time member leave the church because (she was on the search committee) she had asked that he not make any changes aesthetically or otherwise, for a full six months. He began making changes, aesthetic and otherwise, immediately. To name one, he did away with, immediately, the meet/greet portion of the sermon, wherein we can all greet those near us and hug/shake-hands, etc. Calling it a waste of time. She asked that he please refrain that it was causing dismay and he refused. He even told her, "Why should I listen to what is said, it's not going to change my mind?".

Is this being pastoral?

This is all new to me, and I don't like it very much. I want to go to church, be fed by the word of God and serve my Lord in whatever capacity I'm directed to, and with my brothers and sisters, who haven't been hurt and departed because of an uncaring pastor.
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Old 03-02-2016, 02:15 PM
 
19,952 posts, read 12,978,948 times
Reputation: 1957
Quote:
Originally Posted by nnyl View Post
This new pastor was hired by a search committee formed from long-time members and leadership of the church. Incidentally, all who were on that search committee, have now departed the church, in disagreements of varying nature with the pastor they sought out and hired.

There were some of the elders on that search committee.
I'm sorry to hear that your church is going through this. I really am.

Unfortunately in a church, as in any organization, placing someone in charge, or management, or in leadership or whatever, that isn't a good fit can be a bad thing for the organization. Unfortunately, it's often very difficult to discern whether a person is a good or bad fit at the time of hiring.
Quote:
As to the question is it just him or are the elders in agreement with the changes. There is only one elder at this point, new to the role. There were, formerly, 4 elders. They have all stepped down from that role in disagreement(s) with the pastor. 2 of the elders left the church entirely. 2 remain as long-time members but are no longer elders. We have another gentleman that stepped up and has been made an elder within the past six months. Prior to that we had no one acting in that role for many months.

Yes I agree the elders should have put him in his place long ago. I think that was the disagreement that initiated all 4 elders stepping down. I think 2 of them were ready to put the pastor on notice, and 2 were not, feeling he should be given more time. No agreement/consensus there, and other discord, they all stepped down from that role, all at once. That left no one in that role, at all for months. We now have a new elder, but what is being done, if anything, to reign in some of what is seen as the pastor being a bully, ... if anything? It's unclear. Is this new elder in complete agreement with the pastor and his whims? I can only assume he must be, because there hasn't been any evidence of change, not yet anyway.

My husband, who is a deacon at this church, tells me, the elder is aware there are problems, and that he is working with the pastor on ... shall we say (my words, not the elder's words) "People Skills". The inner workings of how that is done, not known to the common member there, as it should be.

I agree the search committee did a poor job in their selection. I wish I'd been on that team, to know what the thinking/reasoning was, in hiring this particular individual. It seems apparent to me, that he has spent his career (he is in his young 40's) working with youth. A whole different dynamic than running the entire church and dealing with adults. I think perhaps, a better choice, might've been someone who has acted in an associate or assistant pastor role for some time. Thereby, one might assume, that person has had exposure to working with adults, and differing personalities and mindsets.

I have reached out to the one lone elder that we have, in an email, to express my dismay as we continue to watch the membership of our church disintegrate and at the feet of disagreement with the pastor. As of this point, have not heard back.

As I said in the beginning, this is all new to me. I didn't ask for all this turmoil. I joined a loving church with members of the church all so warm and welcoming, and many outreach programs that one could participate in with their brothers and sisters in serving Christ, spreading God's word. Almost all of those people are now gone. Many of them, at the feet of disagreements with the pastor.

Is it not incumbent upon a good minister/pastor to at least take into account the membership that is there/present? Do they discard people as easily as appears to be the case here?
I'm sorry to hear this. It does break my heart to hear that. It's sad. He sounds like he is completely in the wrong...he has done horrible violence to your church. What it comes down to though, is that the leadership that put him in place, and let him do this stuff is to blame. I'm not taking ANY blame off of him, but the rest of the lay leadership did not do their due diligence when hiring him and by supervising his actions.
Quote:
We have had a long time member leave the church because (she was on the search committee) she had asked that he not make any changes aesthetically or otherwise, for a full six months. He began making changes, aesthetic and otherwise, immediately. To name one, he did away with, immediately, the meet/greet portion of the sermon, wherein we can all greet those near us and hug/shake-hands, etc. Calling it a waste of time. She asked that he please refrain that it was causing dismay and he refused. He even told her, "Why should I listen to what is said, it's not going to change my mind?".

Is this being pastoral?
I've been in the church I'm in for 3.5 years now. I was told by my superiors that placed me here to "change nothing" for 1 year. That meant I changed nothing. I asked for permission on EVERYTHING pertaining to the church, even to the point of a desk in my office. Besides that, I don't have the authority to dictate to my board what we do as this guy has done. If I tried to make some of the changes you mentioned I'd have been run out of town immediately. And that's not a bad thing. I'm planning on staying here until retirement in 30 years...but realistically I may be gone next year and they will still be here.
Quote:

This is all new to me, and I don't like it very much. I want to go to church, be fed by the word of God and serve my Lord in whatever capacity I'm directed to, and with my brothers and sisters, who haven't been hurt and departed because of an uncaring pastor.
I'm sorry. As I said, it just breaks my heart.

At some point you need to consider if it would be better to go to a new church. I know you don't want to leave, but is there another church in town where a lot of the departed members are going to?
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Old 03-03-2016, 05:51 AM
 
575 posts, read 827,944 times
Reputation: 542
We do stay in prayer as to where God wants us to be. It's the only thing we know to do at this point.
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