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Old 03-08-2016, 01:23 PM
Status: "Build the damn wall!" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: The Haunted Mansion
15,208 posts, read 8,250,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
What does that have to do with any marriage ceremony?
It doesn't. It has to do with your "expertise" demonstrated in posts 193-198.
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Old 03-08-2016, 01:28 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 5,742,037 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
The ten lost tribes were promised a betrothal that would redeem them back into Israel through a redeeming marriage and so John was sent out as the friend of the bridegroom in order to prepare the lost gentiles of Ephraim to become brides to marry a Jew in order to be called,'' Israel.''


Jews did not need a betrothal because they were already Israel. Jesus came and died having his side pierced in order to take a bride from his own body and this is the water and the blood, and then he becomes a husband within us in order for the spirit to guide the bride who has become a submissive virgin.


Israel stood at the mountain receiving a Ketubah, a wedding contract.


{Eddie Chumney}
The biblical wedding ceremony that G-d gave requires that the marriage be consummated under a wedding canopy known as a chupah. This imagery gives the understanding that the mountain had become a chupah and Israel was standing underneath the mountain or under the chupah, the place where the wedding takes place.


Every wedding will have two witnesses. They are called the friends of the bridegroom. One is assigned to the groom and one is assigned to the bride. In Exodus 19:17, Moses is seen as one of the two witnesses whose job is to escort the bride to meet the groom under the chupah {Mount Sinai}.


The written contract between the husband and the wife has the be confirmed, the water and blood as a legal witness to a consummation and two witnesses must sign the contract as legal binding witnesses.


The two witnesses are friends of the bridegroom and Moses being one of the witnesses appointed to the bride, he came down with the marriage contract and then broke it because he found them committing adultery and could not sign off on that contract so he did not allow Israel to fully enter into the marriage by breaking the two stones.


Jesus the came as the messenger of a new covenant, a new wedding contract for Ephraim and Judah, but before he could bring a new contract for Ephraim and Judah, FIRST he had to give the gentiles of Ephraim that marriage betrothal in order for Ephraim to even be present because when Jesus came, Ephraim had been lost for 700 years and they were waiting on a betrothal.


John went into Galilee of the nations in the land of Joseph where the ten tribes had sat in darkness for 700 years and they saw a great light in the bridegroom for that promised betrothal.


As it is still to this day, No Jew would stand up and redeem gentiles then or now besides jumping through hoops, and so Jesus not only came as a mediator between a couple, but he stood as a Jew offering a marriage of redemption in order to add to the nation.


He died and a bride was taken from his own body and just as it is with a betrothal, the groom then leaves and prepares a place for he and his bride to dwell together. The groom comes back by surprise and collects his bride who has been patiently waiting on her wedding day.


After you are married, you have a honeymoon that last for 7 days and it is known as the 7 days of the chupah, and it can be 7 days or 7 years.




Joel 2
16Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.


The wedding takes place on a feast day appointed just for that reason and then the bride and the bridegroom go on their honeymoon and when they come back, they celebrate the wedding banquet that is an appointed feast day.


Revelation 19


The Marriage of the Lamb
6And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.
7Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
9And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. 10And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
The Rider on the White Horse
11And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean




The giving of the Torah at Mount Sinai is where the children of Israel not only heard the voice of God but it was seen in waves and they were visualized as fiery substance just as the fire had appeard above the disciples heads on the same day. It is said by Rabbi Mshe Weissman that each commandment that Left Hashem's mouth traveled around the whole camp and the to each Jew individually, asking him,'' Do you accept upon yourself this commandment with all the halochot pertaining to it?''


Then every Jew answered saying,'' Yes.''


This was a marriage taking place with a ketubah and the bride saying,'' I do, I will,''


It was performed under a chupah and they became legally betrothed, and a betrothal is so binding that to break it, one needs to get a divorce.




But that is exactly what we are waiting on and it was the mission of Messiah to come bringing a Ketubah and establishing his ten betrothed as a legal congregation who has been redeemed through a marriage that has subsequently brought them into the inheritance of Israel.




Wives and Husbands
31FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH. 32This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.
So, which one refers to marriage between a man and a woman and the ceremony required, in the bible, not somebody named Chutney? Joel 2 has nothing to do with a wedding, you realize that?
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Old 03-08-2016, 01:31 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 5,742,037 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
It doesn't. It has to do with your "expertise" demonstrated in posts 193-198.
In other words, your comment is totally irrelevant. Got it.
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Old 03-08-2016, 01:33 PM
Status: "Build the damn wall!" (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: The Haunted Mansion
15,208 posts, read 8,250,739 times
Reputation: 1547
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
In other words, your comment is totally irrelevant. Got it.
Just giving you a hard time. Thanks for sharing your "expertise". Do you teach Bible study classes?
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Old 03-08-2016, 01:44 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 5,742,037 times
Reputation: 4508
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
Just giving you a hard time. Thanks for sharing your "expertise". Do you teach Bible study classes?

It's OK, I have big shoulders. Good grief, there isn't a minister in the world that would let me teach bible study classes... too great a risk of deconversions from his flock. I'd love to do part of a sermon in the two mega churches near me here in Florida. One is Southern Baptist (surprise!), the larger one a Calvary one.

Yeah, I can just imagine the reaction. Lynchings are still illegal, right?
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Old 03-08-2016, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
13,337 posts, read 4,261,420 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
So, which one refers to marriage between a man and a woman and the ceremony required, in the bible, not somebody named Chutney? Joel 2 has nothing to do with a wedding, you realize that?
Joel 2 has everything to do with a wedding when you are looking at the feasts as they are meant to be viewed and the promises of those feasts.


Eddie chumney, I put his name cause I quoted him.


Jesus is the man and his bride is his church as a female.




Joel 2



I will Pour Out My Spirit
(John 14:15-26; John 16:5-16; Acts 2:1-13; Acts 10:44-48; Acts 19:1-7)

28And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
30And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
31The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.
32And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.




There are two promises of the pouring of spirit and the first one took place at Pentecost just as the betrothal takes place on Pentecost when the marriage contract was brought down at Sinai and then realized at the second Pentecost when the disciples were indwelled by the spirit of the bridegroom.


They went out and prophesied speaking in every language and people supposed they were drunk on new wine but it was the spirit of the bridegroom that had entered them, and to make this obvious, they went out raising the dead and healing entire villages by the spirit of the bridegroom that had entered them and become as one, as it is with a man and a woman.




But there is also the second promise on the eighth day of Sukkot when the spirit will be poured out on the bride once again, and for 6 days the bride circles the alter just as it is with a bride circling a groom in a wedding ceremony because the bride then circles the alter 7 times and gives a shout.


It is only showing a wedding ceremony.


And when the spirit is poured out in full measures, it is the spirit of the groom poured out in full measure within the bride.


They become one in a marriage.
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Old 03-08-2016, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
13,337 posts, read 4,261,420 times
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Adam was lain down in a sleep of death in order to take a bride from his own body, and he became a guiding spirit inside of Eve.


Jesus was lain down in a sleep of death in order to take a bride from his own body, and he was so named,'' The New Adam,''


A new husband that enters a bride and becomes a guiding male spirit inside a female that houses the spirit.
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Old 03-08-2016, 04:18 PM
 
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 5,742,037 times
Reputation: 4508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
Joel 2 has everything to do with a wedding when you are looking at the feasts as they are meant to be viewed and the promises of those feasts.... (a bunch of irrelevant stuff deleted)

Your perspective is disputed by many biblical commentaries:

Joel 2 - Matthew Henry's Commentary - Bible Commentary

Joel 2 Commentary - Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible

Joel 2 - The Day of the Lord and the Restoration of the Lord

You are wrong. Joel 2 has nothing to do with a marriage ceremony, nor is there any other place in the bible that does.
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Old 03-08-2016, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,610 posts, read 5,125,761 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
The wine which will be drank at the wine harvest is not a wine to get a person drunk at all.




The 4 cups of redemption at Passover are unfermented, new wine, non alcoholic.


Since no leaven may be present during the Passover season, the wine used by Jesus and His disciples during their Passover would have been unfermented, or non-alcoholic. The four cups symbolize the fruit of the vine, Jesus

During the week of Passover, Jesus said, "I am the true vine..." -- John 15:1. Isaiah tells us that God has a vineyard, and that vineyard is Israel. -- Isaiah 5:7
The choice vine planted in that vineyard is Messiah, Jesus.
So the Pharisees, those bible-believers of Jesus' day, were simply liars? Why would there even be a mention of drunkenness if the wine were not fermented?

Quote:
For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon!' 19"The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' Yet wisdom is vindicated by her deeds."
Matt 11:18-19

While the Greek word oinos means both fermented and unfermented grape juice the Pharisees would hardly charge Jesus with getting drunk on unfermented wine. The Hebrew word for fermented wine is yayin and can be found over 100 times in the OT. Melchizedek, the first great high priest of God at Salem (Jerusalem) “brought forth bread and wine” for Abram and his companions. The word for wine used is yayin. Noah drank too much yayin. Lot became drunk on yayin.

There was no such thing as "hard liquor" in biblical times. But fermented "grape juice" was the drink that was common because so much water was tainted. That's why even today, the French are obsessed with wine at every meal--it comes from a tradition that arose out of tainted water.

God even allowed drink made with dates and other fruits with higher volumes of alcohol (than the 10-14 percent coming from naturally fermented wine) which is called shekar. It is mentioned a score of times in the OT. God, according to the Psalmist, gave wine to make men glad (Psalm 104:15).

There are only two types of people that will turn what God intended as a blessing into a curse--drunkards and fundamentalists wishing to prove their superiority about biblical knowledge--and therefore creating fiction stories thereby turning their tradition into Scripture.

Pharisees always try to make things complicated so they can take pride in "splaining" it to the rest of us. Jesus simply said "Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest." (Matt 11:28). No one needs complicated formulas and secret codes in Scripture. They just need to understand it contextually (because little of it can be dropped into 21st century America) and practice what Jesus taught was the summation of all the LAW and Prophets. Your rules and secret formulas make the Word of God into no effect.

Study Scripture differently from what you do now. See it from the perspective of a Middle East Jew and under the conditions in which they lived. And please cease attempting to turn your personal tradition into the Word of God. It is not only unseemly, it is quite unnecessary. God will give His children the knowledge they need to be who they should be.

By the way, I am almost 70, I do occasionally drink, but have never, ever, been drunk on alcohol a single time in my entire life.
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Old 03-08-2016, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,610 posts, read 5,125,761 times
Reputation: 3917
Quote:
Originally Posted by cupper3 View Post
Your perspective is disputed by many biblical commentaries:

Joel 2 - Matthew Henry's Commentary - Bible Commentary

Joel 2 Commentary - Commentary Critical and Explanatory on the Whole Bible

Joel 2 - The Day of the Lord and the Restoration of the Lord

You are wrong. Joel 2 has nothing to do with a marriage ceremony, nor is there any other place in the bible that does.
I think Hannibal has a need to feel biblically superior which is why so many of his posts revolve around formulas and way out interpretations. It's a kind of L. Ron Hubbard complex. Make things look complicated while only you are the one who can make the correct explanations to something you have been responsible for muddying up.

It's kind of sad to see an atheist grasp Scripture better than someone claiming to be a christian. At the same time, there are many "christians" who are good at the job of making non-believers look positively enlightened.
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