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Old 03-05-2016, 04:22 PM
 
37,546 posts, read 25,261,889 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Some claim that Jesus didn't come to die on the cross -- and they may deny what's called the "sacrificial atonement" -- meaning that Jesus atoned for our sins by sacrificing himself.
Romans 5 states that this is why Jesus came:

Romans 5:6-9
"For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die— 8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God."
Free yourself from this barbaric blood sacrifice mentality. Jesus substituted for us because we could NOT do what He was able to do. He was our "designated hitter," not our scapegoat. He was our achiever. He achieved what we could NOT! Our entire species is blessed because He did what NONE of us could do, NOT because He paid some absurd penalty for our "felonies and misdemeanors" against God!!! Because HE did what we were not capable of doing, all of us now are saved from permanent separation from God (NOT some absurd eternal torment).

His PERFECT achievement provides the COVER for our imperfections, IF we resonate with His love for us all in love of God and each other. There is no mystery, no payment or punishment, and no magic. All we need to DO is follow His instructions to His disciples to love God and each other every day and repent when we don't. Everything else is the result of human ignorance, vanity and hubris.
Quote:
But there are some that say Jesus just came to show us the way, or show us how to live, or to love.
That is NOT the alternative, Vizio.. Jesus did what we could NOT do. He hit the Grand Slam in the ninth inning to win the game for us.
Quote:
If that's the case...I just have one question: Why did he only minister for about 3 years?
Silly question. He was scourged and crucified! Duh!!!
Quote:
If his intent was to just demonstrate how to live life on earth...why didn't he stick around to show more people?
He DID under the New Covenant. He now abides with us as the Comforter sent in His name to guide us to the truth God has "written in our hearts."
Quote:
My thought is that he had one mission: To die on the cross. This is why he came--he didn't need to stick around afterward. He left, and the Spirit came to guide the church as it went forth to proclaim that.
Your thought is WRONG. He didn't come to die on the cross. That was inevitable during that barbarous era. He came to do what we could NOT because the fields were ripe for the harvest and a New Covenant.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
Many shroud themselves in a blood sacrifice, thinking they are wise.
But these are merely the walking dead who go to, and fro on the earth.
Amen, Jer. They retain the ancient ignorance and barbarity of our primitive ancestors. It is a travesty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
But again, His primary reason for coming into the world was to go to the cross and pay the penalty for our sins, in our place, as our substitute.
WRONG. He came to achieve what WE could NOT as our substitute! Huge difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
The Romans citation does not give the mechanics or process of Atonement, only the fact and result. There are much less barbaric explanations of the process of the Atonement, but that one gives support to the system of religion organized and manipulated by the professional clergy that gtew out of the original faith. My personal take is that Jesus' sacrifice invalidated Law as basis for community and judgement.
Not so much invalidated Law as revealed the true purpose and principle behind the "carnal milk."
Quote:
As for 3 1/2 years, how long should it take to get across the idea that concern for the well-being of everyone in any situation should be that basis?
Well, clearly it hasn't taken after 2000+years, nate. Depressing, isn't it?

Last edited by MysticPhD; 03-05-2016 at 04:37 PM..
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Old 03-05-2016, 04:34 PM
 
10,520 posts, read 4,149,112 times
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do parents ever stop parenting? hmmm.
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Old 03-05-2016, 05:14 PM
 
20,304 posts, read 15,661,748 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
WRONG. He came to achieve what WE could NOT as our substitute! Huge difference.
Not so much invalidated Law as revealed the true purpose and principle behind the "carnal milk."Well,
Jesus came into the world to die for the sins of the world, in our place, as our substitute as the apostles who actually had personal experiences with Jesus recorded in the Scriptures.
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Old 03-05-2016, 06:02 PM
 
4,221 posts, read 1,966,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Jesus came into the world to die for the sins of the world, in our place, as our substitute as the apostles who actually had personal experiences with Jesus recorded in the Scriptures.
Jesus said He came to spread the word of God and testify the truth, to give life to His sheep. Life is the word of God as Jesus stated. To deny He said this is to deny His teaching.

"The reason I was born and came into the world is to testify the truth."

"I must preach the good news of the kingdom of God to the surrounding cities for this is why I was sent."


"just as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many."(not His physical life but spiritual life, the word of God.
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Old 03-05-2016, 06:11 PM
 
6,822 posts, read 3,137,645 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

Why thank you Z. I love hugs.

Back at you. MUAH.
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Old 03-05-2016, 06:17 PM
Status: "Build the damn wall!" (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: The Haunted Mansion
15,184 posts, read 8,243,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacegiver View Post
Jesus said He came to spread the word of God and testify the truth, to give life to His sheep. Life is the word of God as Jesus stated. To deny He said this is to deny His teaching.

"The reason I was born and came into the world is to testify the truth."

"I must preach the good news of the kingdom of God to the surrounding cities for this is why I was sent."

"just as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many."(not His physical life but spiritual life, the word of God.)

LOL!

Matt. 26

26 While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.” 27 And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you; 28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.

Body, blood? Sounds physical to me.
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Old 03-05-2016, 06:29 PM
 
20,304 posts, read 15,661,748 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacegiver View Post
Jesus said He came to spread the word of God and testify the truth, to give life to His sheep. Life is the word of God as Jesus stated. To deny He said this is to deny His teaching.

"The reason I was born and came into the world is to testify the truth."

"I must preach the good news of the kingdom of God to the surrounding cities for this is why I was sent."


"just as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many."(not His physical life but spiritual life, the word of God.
To deny that Jesus died for your sins on the cross is to reject the gospel of your salvation and to remain under condemnation. But it was His spiritual death that paid the penalty for our sins. He was still physically alive when He said that it had been finished. ''It has been finished - 'tetelestai' '' - John 19:30 is in the perfect tense which refers to past action completed with results continuing on in full effect.

After paying the penalty for our sins Jesus then dismissed His spirit into the hands of the Father and died physically. He was then resurrected three days later in order to be the first fruits of those who are to be resurrected in Him. And in order to be able to ascend into heaven since He could not go back into heaven in His mortal body.

Last edited by Mike555; 03-05-2016 at 06:42 PM..
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Old 03-05-2016, 07:46 PM
 
4,221 posts, read 1,966,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
LOL!

Matt. 26

26 While they were eating, Jesus took some bread, and after a blessing, He broke it and gave it to the disciples, and said, “Take, eat; this is My body.” 27 And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you; 28 for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.

Body, blood? Sounds physical to me.
He fools those who do not accept His words. What was He doing while He said those things? Speaking with WORDS. Take what and eat it? His WORDS. The body and blood of the son of God is the word of God because the son of God is the truth, the word of God.

"My flesh is true food and my blood is honest drink. "

Sounds like the word of God to me!!!!
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Old 03-05-2016, 08:51 PM
 
17,770 posts, read 8,892,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Jesus came into the world to die for the sins of the world, in our place, as our substitute as the apostles who actually had personal experiences with Jesus recorded in the Scriptures.
It only takes a moment to die, not 3 1/2 years.
The notion of a blood sacrifice is Pharisaical.
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Old 03-05-2016, 08:55 PM
 
17,770 posts, read 8,892,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonkonkomaNative View Post
A charismatic, messianic, man named Jesus discovered his special purpose, and began his journey. He was poor, and his life was governed by the Temple priests, and the government of Rome.
The Temple priests were decided by Rome, so these men would be friendly to the government before a nation who believed they were God's chosen. Seems to be quite a slap on the face when the poor continued to be squeezed. Jesus and his family experienced this first hand.

He introduced something quite radical. Take care of the poor. They are your brothers and sisters. The Temple was the target of his anger. The price for sacrifice was an expensive endeavor for the poor. He began to speak about change.
His radical idea was a threat to those in power.

At the same time, this young man was a bit arrogant. His friends were quarreling. They were losing steam. They wanted their own power. Jesus saw this far too late. He already participated in the donkey run.

No man in his right mind wants to be crucified. Jesus was no different. Once he was arrested, he knew his fate.

His best friends abandoned him, and denied him. He trusted them. He lived with them for three years, and never knew them.
Some crew. Many put these guys on a pedestal. Every word is golden. I would not consider them good role models. I do not consider them inspired by God, either.

Paul was an opportunist. The other followers had difficult lives. Life time penitence for abandoning their friend. Jesus was not Christian, and neither were the Apostles. Paul, was not Christian either. Rome wiped the homeland off the map giving way to a diaspora. But, what is a powerful Rome to do? Co-opt, and blend.

It was the women who watched and tended to Jesus. I want to hear their stories. These women are my sisters, and I have a deep appreciation and respect for them.
Two liters of fine flour. (Big Grin)
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