Damnation (Jehovah, hell, punishment, doctrine)

[Birdy_56]

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Questions

1. What does damnation mean?

2. Is "damnation" only for those who do not believe and are baptized?

3. Why does damnation begin at the House of God?

4. Are believers damned?

5. Are there degrees of damnation?

Damnation=krivma= ___________________________________?

[simpleton]

Originally Posted by Birdy_56

Questions

1. What does damnation mean?

2. Is "damnation" only for those who do not believe and are baptized?

3. Why does damnation begin at the House of God?

4. Are believers damned?

5. Are there degrees of damnation?

Damnation=krivma= ___________________________________?

I think there are degrees of punishment in the afterlife. I'm not sure though as to how that can be reconciled with eternal separation from God. I'll come back in a bit to post some stuff supporting both stances.

In Christ,

Stephen

[Birdy_56]

Originally Posted by simpleton

I think there are degrees of punishment in the afterlife. I'm not sure though as to how that can be reconciled with eternal separation from God. I'll come back in a bit to post some stuff supporting both stances.

In Christ,

Stephen

Again, my friend, there is no-where in all of Canon that uses the term "eternal separation."

Search= "eternal separation"

Your search query for 'eternal separation' has yielded no results, please modify your query and try again.

Eternal means without beginning and end. Are you assuming that separation has no origin or ending?

'I have loved thee with an everlasting love.' You can never translate that word "everlasting" into English. It simply means that you have got into the spaceless, boundless realm, you have fallen out of time to where time is no more. You have gone out into that mysterious something where nothing can be taken hold of as tangible, it is all beyond you, beyond your grasp, beyond your calculation, beyond your power to cope with it and bring it into some kind of dimensions. That is the word: beyond you, beyond your time, beyond your world, beyond all your ways of thinking and working. 'I have loved thee with an everlasting, timeless, spaceless love.' Did you notice the alternative marginal reading to the phrase? 'Jehovah appeared of old unto me'? It is, 'from afar appeared unto me' - outside of our world altogether. He says, 'I have loved you with a love altogether outside your dimensions of time and space.' -G.Campbell Morgan-

[ESFP]

If you gave your most valuable possession, and then were shunned, you'd be pretty upset. God has everything. Imagine him choosing his most valued, Jesus Christ! He gave and was shunned. I'd guess He's pretty disappointed, and would rather not spend eternity catering to non-believers. I believe "damned" means out of the sight and influence of God. That would be Hell!

[simpleton]

Originally Posted by ESFP

If you gave your most valuable possession, and then were shunned, you'd be pretty upset. God has everything. Imagine him choosing his most valued, Jesus Christ! He gave and was shunned. I'd guess He's pretty disappointed, and would rather not spend eternity catering to non-believers. I believe "damned" means out of the sight and influence of God. That would be Hell!

Or eternally consummed by darkness. Not sure how to reconcile this with God being everything, but I do know that Hell will be a complete absence of his Love.

[Birdy_56]

Originally Posted by ESFP

I believe "damned" means out of the sight and influence of God. That would be Hell!

That indeed would be beyond any hell conceived in the human mind. But to imagine a realm that is out of the sight and influence of God is impossible, and contrary to the fact that nothing is outside of His sight and away from His influence, love and Person. Our God is omnipresent, and there is simply no dimension in which He is not there, including hell. Do you know that "from Him everything comes, through Him everything exists, and in Him everything ends"? It is so!

Everything= ta pantve= the all.

You have stated what you believe damned means. Can you state if believers are subject to damnation and if there are degrees of damnation?

This is Christ's own declaration, 'I will draw all men unto me.' Therein consists its potency for men: not in Christ's satisfaction of justice by suffering a legal penalty, but in that the cross is the supreme expression of a divine spirit of love, truth, mercy, brotherhood, faith, ministry, unselfishness, holiness, - a spirit which goes out to men with divine intensity of purpose and yearning to draw them into its own sphere, and to make them partakers of its own eternal quality. This was a fact before the foundation of the world, is a fact today, and will be a fact so long as any life remains unreconciled to God. Atonement is eternal in virtue of the eternal spirit of Christ through which he offered himself to God. -Dr. Marvin Vincent-

[Birdy_56]

Originally Posted by simpleton

Or eternally consummed by darkness. Not sure how to reconcile this with God being everything, but I do know that Hell will be a complete absence of his Love.

Could you please direct us to what you know in the Scriptures as hell being a "complete absence of His love." God is love: this is what our God is in essence and Being. He is also Light/ Spirit and Fire, also His very essence.

But, let us assume for a nano-second that the darkness is eternal, (like God), and finite individuals can exist outside of God (and be eternal like God without beginning and ending), how then can everything come from Him and end in Him?

Who would dare so much as to smile, if he really believed endless torments were certain to be the portion of some members of his household--it may be of himself? Marriage would be a crime; each birth the occasion of an awful dread. The shadow of a possible Hell would darken every home, sadden every family hearth. All this becomes evident when we reflect, that to perpetuate the race would be to help on the perpetuation of moral evil. For if this creed be true, out of all the yearly births a steady current is flowing on to help fill the abyss of hell, to make larger and vaster the total moral evil which is to endure forever. 'The world would be one vast madhouse' says the American scholar Hallsted, 'if realizing and continued pressure of such a doctrine was present.' -Thomas Allin-

World Meters

HERE

[firstborn888]

Originally Posted by Birdy_56

But, let us assume for a nano-second that the darkness is eternal, (like God), and finite individuals can exist outside of God (and be eternal like God without beginning and ending), how then can everything come from Him and end in Him?

That's the point that some of those who believe in eternal torment miss: if true, the 'damned' (in the traditional meaning) cannot be forgotten by God. For the 'damned' to continue to live and suffer their 'life' would have to be actively sustained by God. And 'we' would be one with God at that point, and so would be participating in the sustaining of 'life' so their misery could continue.

So, that would be part of our's and God's eternal job, to sustain the existence of those in agony so they can continue their sentence of unending suffering.
Wow!

Anybody want to reconsider their understanding of God's plan?

blessings,
- byron

[Birdy_56]

Originally Posted by firstborn888

That's the point that some of those who believe in eternal torment miss: if true, the 'damned' (in the traditional meaning) cannot be forgotten by God. For the 'damned' to continue to live and suffer their 'life' would have to be actively sustained by God. And 'we' would be one with God at that point, and so would be participating in the sustaining of 'life' so their misery could continue.

Excellent! For mortals who are gripped in mortality there is only one Hope, to be swallowed up in immortality. This working, like everything coming from the Source, the Guide and the Goal of all that is, is entirely out of Him. If any being is sustained in immortality, they must be raised from the dead by the Living Life, and "put on immortality." There is no existence outside of His life, none!

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; then they that are Christ`s, at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall deliver up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have abolished all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all his enemies under his feet.
The last enemy that shall be abolished is death. For, He put all things in subjection under his feet. But when he saith, All things are put in subjection, it is evident that he is excepted who did subject all things unto him. And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all.

[Birdy_56]

Originally Posted by simpleton

I think there are degrees of punishment in the afterlife.

I know there are degrees of damnation.

The Master declares to the scribes and Pharisees...

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayer: therefore you shall receive the greater damnation.

Question #4

Are believers damned?