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Old 03-12-2016, 10:55 AM
 
20,292 posts, read 15,633,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
1.Who would have believed our report, and to whom was the arm of the Lord revealed?
Rashi's Commentary:

Who would have believed our report: So will the nations say to one another, Were we to hear from others what we see, it would be unbelievable.

the arm of the Lord: like this, with greatness and glory, to whom was it revealed until now?
2.And he came up like a sapling before it, and like a root from dry ground, he had neither form nor comeliness; and we saw him that he had no appearance. Now shall we desire him?
Rashi's Commentary:

And he came up like a sapling before it: This people, before this greatness came to it, was a very humble people, and it came up by itself like a sapling of the saplings of the trees.

and like a root: he came up from dry land.

neither form: had he in the beginning, nor comeliness.

and we saw him that he had no appearance. Now shall we desire him?: And when we saw him from the beginning without an appearance, how could we desire him?

Now shall we desire him?: This is a question.
3.Despised and rejected by men, a man of pains and accustomed to illness, and as one who hides his face from us, despised and we held him of no account.
Rashi's Commentary:

Despised and rejected by men: was he. So is the custom of this prophet: he mentions all Israel as one man, e.g., (44:2), “Fear not, My servant Jacob” ; (44:1) “And now, hearken, Jacob, My servant.” Here too (52:13), “Behold My servant shall prosper,” he said concerning the house of Jacob. יַשְׂכִּיל is an expression of prosperity. Comp. (I Sam. 18:14) “And David was successful (מַשְׂכִּיל) in all his ways.”

and as one who hides his face from us: Because of their intense shame and humility, they were as one who hides his face from us, with their faces bound up in concealment, in order that we not see them, like a plagued man who hides his face and is afraid to look.

4.Indeed, he bore our illnesses, and our pains-he carried them, yet we accounted him as plagued, smitten by God and oppressed.
Rashi's Commentary:

Indeed, he bore our illnesses: Heb. אָכֵן, an expression of ‘but’ in all places. But now we see that this came to him not because of his low state, but that he was chastised with pains so that all the nations be atoned for with Israel’s suffering. The illness that should rightfully have come upon us, he bore.

yet we accounted him: We thought that he was hated by the Omnipresent, but he was not so, but he was pained because of our transgressions and crushed because of our iniquities
.



5.But he was pained because of our transgressions, crushed because of our iniquities; the chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his wound we were healed.
Rashi's Commentary:

the chastisement of our welfare was upon him: The chastisement due to the welfare that we enjoyed, came upon him, for he was chastised so that there be peace for the entire world.

6.We all went astray like sheep, we have turned, each one on his way, and the Lord accepted his prayers for the iniquity of all of us.
Rashi's Commentary:

We all went astray like sheep: Now it is revealed that all the heathens (nations [mss.]) had erred.

accepted his prayers: He accepted his prayers and was appeased concerning the iniquity of all of us, that He did not destroy His world.

accepted… prayers: Heb. הִפְגִּיעַ, espriad in O.F., an expression of supplication.


7.He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he would not open his mouth; like a lamb to the slaughter he would be brought, and like a ewe that is mute before her shearers, and he would not open his mouth.
Rashi's Commentary:

He was oppressed, and he was afflicted: Behold he was oppressed by taskmasters and people who exert pressure.

and he was afflicted: with verbal taunts, sorparlec in O.F.

yet he would not open his mouth: He would suffer and remain silent like the lamb that is brought to the slaughter, and like the ewe that is mute before her shearers.

and he would not open his mouth: This refers to the lamb brought to the slaughter.

8.From imprisonment and from judgment he is taken, and his generation who shall tell? For he was cut off from the land of the living; because of the transgression of my people, a plague befell them.

Rashi's Commentary:

From imprisonment and from judgment he is taken: The prophet reports and says that the heathens (nations [mss., K’li Paz]) will say this at the end of days, when they see that he was taken from the imprisonment that he was imprisoned in their hands and from the judgment of torments that he suffered until now.

and his generation: The years that passed over him.

who shall tell?: The tribulations that befell him, for from the beginning, he was cut off and exiled from the land of the living that is the land of Israel for because of the transgression of my people, this plague came to the righteous among them.
9.And he gave his grave to the wicked, and to the wealthy with his kinds of death, because he committed no violence, and there was no deceit in his mouth
Rashi's Commentary:

And he gave his grave to the wicked: He subjected himself to be buried according to anything the wicked of the heathens (nations [mss., K’li Paz]) would decree upon him, for they would penalize him with death and the burial of donkeys in the intestines of the dogs.

to the wicked: According to the will of the wicked, he was willing to be buried, and he would not deny the living God.

and to the wealthy with his kinds of death: and to the will of the ruler he subjected himself to all kinds of death that he decreed upon him, because he did not wish to agree to (denial) [of the Torah] to commit evil and to rob like all the heathens (nations [mss., K’li Paz]) among whom he lived.
and there was no deceit in his mouth: to accept idolatry (to accept a pagan deity as God [Parshandatha]).


10.And the Lord wished to crush him, He made him ill; if his soul makes itself restitution, he shall see children, he shall prolong his days, and God's purpose shall prosper in his hand.
Rashi's Commentary:

And the Lord wished to crush him, He made him ill: The Holy One, blessed be He, wished to crush him and to cause him to repent; therefore, he made him ill.

If his soul makes itself restitution, etc.: Said the Holy One, blessed be He, “I will see, if his soul will be given and delivered with My holiness to return it to Me as restitution for all that he betrayed Me, I will pay him his recompense, and he will see children, etc.” This word אָשָׁם is an expression of ransom that one gives to the one against when he sinned, amende in O.F., to free from faults, similar to the matter mentioned in the episode of the Philistines (I Sam. 6:3), “Do not sen


11.From the toil of his soul he would see, he would be satisfied; with his knowledge My servant would vindicate the just for many, and their iniquities he would bear.

Rashi's Commentary:

From the toil of his soul: he would eat and be satisfied, and he would not rob and plunder.

with his knowledge… would vindicate the just: My servant would judge justly all those who came to litigate before him.

and their iniquities he would bear: He would bear, in the manner of all the righteous, as it is said (Num. 18:1): “You and your sons shall bear the iniquity of the sanctuary.”
12.Therefore, I will allot him a portion in public, and with the strong he shall share plunder, because he poured out his soul to death, and with transgressors he was counted; and he bore the sin of many, and interceded for the transgressors.
Rashi's Commentary:

Therefore: Because he did this, I will allot him an inheritance and a lot in public with the Patriarchs.

he poured out his soul to death: Heb. הֶעֱרָה. An expression like (Gen. 24: 20), “And she emptied (וַתְּעַר) her pitcher.”

and with transgressors he was counted: He suffered torments as if he had sinned and transgressed, and this is because of others; he bore the sin of the many.

and interceded for the transgressors: through his sufferings, for good came to the world through him.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unfortunately this isn't scripture:
If you're claiming that the New Testament isn't scripture, and I assume you are since you made that comment with regard to the passages I posted, you are sorely mistaken.

And Isaiah 53 refers to Jesus as Jesus Himself said (Luke 22:37), and as did the apostle Philip (Acts 8:26-35). And I'll take their word for it rather than Rashi's . . . or your opinion to the contrary.
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Old 03-12-2016, 11:00 AM
 
Location: US
26,248 posts, read 13,909,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
If you're claiming that the New Testament isn't scripture, and I assume you are since you made that comment with regard to the passages I posted, you are sorely mistaken.

And Isaiah 53 refers to Jesus as Jesus Himself said (Luke 22:37), and as did the apostle Philip (Acts 8:26-35). And I'll take their word for it rather than Rashi's . . . or your opinion to the contrary.
But you'll proffer all those commentators that agree with YOUR beliefs?...While you state that the original Sages of the Tanakh are wrong?...And no, Isaiah 53 does not refer to him, it refers to someone else...
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Old 03-12-2016, 11:06 AM
 
20,292 posts, read 15,633,754 times
Reputation: 7403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
If you're claiming that the New Testament isn't scripture, and I assume you are since you made that comment with regard to the passages I posted, you are sorely mistaken.

And Isaiah 53 refers to Jesus as Jesus Himself said (Luke 22:37), and as did the apostle Philip (Acts 8:26-35). And I'll take their word for it rather than Rashi's . . . or your opinion to the contrary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
But you'll proffer all those commentators that agree with YOUR beliefs?...While you state that the original Sages of the Tanakh are wrong?...And no, Isaiah 53 does not refer to him, it refers to someone else...
As I said, Jesus and the apostle Philip said that Isaiah 53 referred to Jesus. And I will take their word for it rather than your opinion to the contrary.
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Old 03-12-2016, 11:14 AM
 
Location: US
26,248 posts, read 13,909,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
As I said, Jesus and the apostle Philip said that Isaiah 53 referred to Jesus. And I will take their word for it rather than your opinion to the contrary.
Also, recently commentators have said Genesis 3:15 does too...So?...
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Old 03-12-2016, 03:00 PM
Status: "More than chromosomes." (set 3 days ago)
 
Location: Anderson, IN
4,059 posts, read 1,142,720 times
Reputation: 2476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
On the contrary. It is Christ centered and Biblical. People want to hear what tickles their ears instead of the truth. The truth is that the only way to the Father is through Jesus Christ. Jesus Himself made it very plain that many will not be saved.
The truth is, Mike. YOU DON'T DECIDE!!! God saves whoever God saves. He doesn't need you telling people who he will or won't save. It's NOT YOUR DECISION!!!
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Old 03-12-2016, 03:04 PM
 
Location: GOVERNMENT of TRAITORS & NAZIS
20,551 posts, read 22,709,293 times
Reputation: 7625
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
On the contrary. It is Christ centered and Biblical. People want to hear what tickles their ears instead of the truth. The truth is that the only way to the Father is through Jesus Christ. Jesus Himself made it very plain that many will not be saved.

This applies to everyone. If you do not believe that Jesus died for your sins then you quite simply are not saved, and you remain under condemnation.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Matthew 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; . . . 46] "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

We are all born under condemnation. The only way the condemnation is removed is by accepting the finished redemptive work of Jesus on the cross. And that involves recognizing that Jesus died for your sins.
But, what He did not say was WHO WOULD BE INCLUDED IN THE MANY...
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Old 03-12-2016, 03:23 PM
 
17,689 posts, read 8,860,686 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
We are all born under condemnation.
I would disagree with the filthy-rag mentality.
It's like telling your child, he or she is stupid.

And, not worthy of unconditional love.
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Old 03-12-2016, 04:36 PM
 
10,474 posts, read 4,130,163 times
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I kind of agree. In fact, that's what I am doing. we normal's only have to vote and try to make reasonable laws. reasonable laws with a "god' tag are just as reasonable with the tag as without, so give it to them. And fight the important ones.

the militant way needs to be limited until such time as "war" begins. then we use them in the front lines while the normal's plan the bats and reconstruction plans. Militants are also good at training the hate needed sometimes for the normal's to do unspeakable things in combat to win.

I draw the line at fundies and millize telling us the reasonable logic for a belief. They have none.
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Old 03-12-2016, 04:40 PM
 
10,474 posts, read 4,130,163 times
Reputation: 1192
[quote=Mike555;43328308]On the contrary. It is Christ centered and Biblical. People want to hear what tickles their ears instead of the truth. The truth is that the only way to the Father is through Jesus Christ. Jesus Himself made it very plain that many will not be saved.

This applies to everyone. If you do not believe that Jesus died for your sins then you quite simply are not saved, and you remain under condemnation.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Matthew 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; . . . 46] "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

this is not only BS its anti Christ. The only "sin" we are born with is "ignorance" silly. That's what Christ is teaching, that's the lesson of the cross. And with education you can have him 'rise", with literalism you can't.
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Old 03-12-2016, 04:42 PM
 
20,292 posts, read 15,633,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geekigurl View Post
The truth is, Mike. YOU DON'T DECIDE!!! God saves whoever God saves. He doesn't need you telling people who he will or won't save. It's NOT YOUR DECISION!!!
No, I don't decide. But God has declared in His word that whoever believes in Christ Jesus has eternal life and will not perish, and whoever doesn't believe in Christ is already under condemnation. And that is true whether you choose to accept it or not.
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