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Old 03-12-2016, 04:49 PM
 
20,298 posts, read 15,638,239 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
But, what He did not say was WHO WOULD BE INCLUDED IN THE MANY...
Jesus said,
John 5:24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

It is those who have believed on Him who have eternal life. And those who have not believed on Him, don't.
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Old 03-12-2016, 04:51 PM
 
20,298 posts, read 15,638,239 times
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[quote=Arach Angle;43335569]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
On the contrary. It is Christ centered and Biblical. People want to hear what tickles their ears instead of the truth. The truth is that the only way to the Father is through Jesus Christ. Jesus Himself made it very plain that many will not be saved.

This applies to everyone. If you do not believe that Jesus died for your sins then you quite simply are not saved, and you remain under condemnation.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Matthew 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; . . . 46] "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

this is not only BS its anti Christ. The only "sin" we are born with is "ignorance" silly. That's what Christ is teaching, that's the lesson of the cross. And with education you can have him 'rise", with literalism you can't.
How can what Christ Himself said be anti-Christ? It can't. Whether you believe Jesus or not is up to you.

We were born under the condemnation of Adam's original sin as Paul taught in Romans 5:17-19. We were never under condemnation for our own personal sins. Our personal sins were set aside until that moment in history when Jesus went to the cross and bore our personal sins in His own body and paid the penalty for them.

Actually, Jesus' resurrection was quite literal.
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Old 03-12-2016, 04:56 PM
 
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He was sent to seek and save that which was lost; humanity.
Apparently, there are those who do not believe (him).
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Old 03-12-2016, 05:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
He was sent to seek and save that which was lost; humanity.
Apparently, there are those who do not believe (him).
And those who come to Him will be, and are, saved. Those who refuse to, remain lost. And such is the clear teaching of Jesus and the apostles.
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Old 03-12-2016, 05:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No, I don't decide. But God has declared in His word that whoever believes in Christ Jesus has eternal life and will not perish, and whoever doesn't believe in Christ is already under condemnation. And that is true whether you choose to accept it or not.
The only "sin" we are born with is "ignorance" silly. That's what Christ is teaching, that's the lesson of the cross. And with education you can have him 'rise", with literalism you can't.
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Old 03-12-2016, 05:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arach Angle View Post
The only "sin" we are born with is "ignorance" silly. That's what Christ is teaching, that's the lesson of the cross. And with education you can have him 'rise", with literalism you can't.

You already made this statement and I've already addressed it. It's obvious that you choose not to believe what the Scriptures say, what the apostles have written, and prefer your own belief system. I will stay with what the Bible teaches. I think then that we're done.
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Old 03-12-2016, 05:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
And those who come to Him will be, and are, saved. Those who refuse to, remain lost.
And such is the clear teaching of Jesus and the apostles.
No doubt ALL will come in his and their own time, not yours O ye of little faith.
Then again, you have an entirely different perception of the Lake of Fire.
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Old 03-12-2016, 05:43 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You already made this statement and I've already addressed it. It's obvious that you choose not to believe what the Scriptures say, what the apostles have written, and prefer your own belief system. I will stay with what the Bible teaches. I think then that we're done.
you say what the book teaches I will say what christ meant. just don't be telling the children you know whats best because you don't. I learn't that from the bible.
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Old 03-12-2016, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
No, I don't decide. But God has declared in His word that whoever believes in Christ Jesus has eternal life and will not perish, and whoever doesn't believe in Christ is already under condemnation. And that is true whether you choose to accept it or not.
Except you don't believe ALL God's Word. Geekigurl is correct. God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy--according to Scripture.

Quote:
So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
Romans 9:18

So, you must disbelieve this verse --or make up a story as you already have done--one that isn't in the Bible and is your attempt to ADD to scripture to make it fit your man-made doctrine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
As for babies who die without receiving Jesus as Savior, or for that matter, anyone, regardless of age, who because of severe mental retardation, dies without having been able to understand the issue, they are automatically saved because of Jesus' finished work on the cross. Since God has made a person's volition with regard to Jesus the issue in salvation, it would be unfair for God to leave in condemnation anyone who simply cannot understand the issue. When a person, at whatever his age, first becomes aware that some kind of a Supreme Being must exist, he becomes accountable to God for his attitude regarding that awareness. If that person has positive volition at that point, then God will ensure that he has an opportunity to hear the gospel message concerning Christ Jesus so that he can either receive Jesus as Savior or reject Him. But for any person who dies never having had the mental capability to come to an awareness of the existence of God (a baby or anyone of any age who lacks mental capacity) his condemnation is lifted and he will go to be with the Lord.

For everyone who has come to the point of 'God consciousness,' the issue with regard to obtaining eternal life, in being delivered from the penalty of sin which is eternal separation from God is whether or not you have believed in Jesus; whether or not you have placed your faith in Him and Him alone for eternal life. Your works have nothing whatsoever to do with being saved from eternal separation from God.
Where is the verse of scripture that backs up your idea? If you rely on the Bible, show us the verses. You can't because they aren't there. That leaves you in a position of understanding your doctrine as sending babies to hell, or that perhaps your doctrine is nothing but what you have heard from denominational handlers.

It's not in the Bible so denominational leaders create a fiction story and give to it the same spiritual credibility they give to what really is in the Bible.

Look at your whole fictionalized story about "tribulational" survivors being addressed.

In chapter 25 Jesus is speaking to those around Him. The Greek word for "brothers" here is adelphoi (Strongs G80). This means literally "brothers". However, it can also mean "countryman" or "followers".
The context of those verses in Matthew supports the idea that He is speaking about followers here. Followers that obey and followers that do not obey. The whole thought of Jesus is in verse 40 where He says that if "you did it to the least of my adelphoi, you did it to me."

Further there is internal support for this in Matthew 10:40-42
Quote:
Anyone who welcomes you welcomes me, and anyone who welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. Whoever welcomes a prophet as a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward, and whoever welcomes a righteous person as a righteous person will receive a righteous person’s reward. And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is my disciple, truly I tell you, that person will certainly not lose their reward.
Now regarding that last line above, Jesus either told the truth that the cup of cold water given to one of these "little ones who is my disciple" will not lose their reward, or Jesus was lying to those He spoke to when He told them the same. Those who provide water aren't even addressed as His followers or disciples--but He promises them they will not lose their reward.

Again, you may need to create another non-biblical fiction story to twist "reward" into some sort of earthly privilege rather than a heavenly one. I'm just pointing out that you don't believe the whole Bible yourself--you fictionalize it to make your own Scripture.

Now if you viewed ALL Scripture through the lens of the Spirit of Jesus Christ it's not necessary to swallow horrible themes about your god's nature NOR make up fictional stories about why he isn't really that bad. God speaks through some Scripture, but no more so than He speaks to trusting individuals today.

You might wish to LISTEN to what Geekigurl is posting rather than continue in the lie of creative stories that support that have been used to brainwash christians since the time of Augustine--from whom we got all that original sin garbage. It's the same Augustine that has made christians view sex in a shameful manner.

Since you have no doubts--and you have ALL the answers--you aren't open to learn anything or even hear anything except that which supports your preconceived notions.

Truthseekers aren't afraid to hear alternate ideas and test them in their own hearts. Now the Pharisees---that's another story.
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Old 03-12-2016, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,582 posts, read 5,113,105 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
You already made this statement and I've already addressed it. It's obvious that you choose not to believe what the Scriptures say, what the apostles have written, and prefer your own belief system. I will stay with what the Bible teaches. I think then that we're done.
Oh, he believes the Scriptures, Mike--just not all the additions you fictionalize into it. Nor does he fail to take things out of their contextual setting and start talking about Jesus changing, in the middle of His message, from talking to everyone in His presence to talking about "Tribulational" survivors. That is a man-made, fictional story to keep doctrine supposedly intact.

Stick with what the gospels display (within context of the early first century) sans all the fictional stories.
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