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Ehrman (59-60) provides a translation of the TF from “the best manuscript of Josephus”:
At this time there appeared Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one should call him a man. For he was a doer of startling deeds, a teacher of people who receive the truth with pleasure. And he gained a following both among many Jews and among many of Greek origin. He was the messiah. And when Pilate, because of an accusation made by the leading men among us, condemned him to the cross, those who had loved him previously did not cease to do so. For he appeared to them on the third day, living again, just as the divine prophets had spoken of these and countless other wondrous things about him. And up until this very day the tribe of Christians, named after him, has not died out. (Antiquities 18.3.3)
If that passage in its entirety doesn’t sound like a breathless Christian advertisement, I don’t know what does! In any event, since historicizers – believers and evemerists alike – become so hung up on this passage, arguing that it proves Jesus’s existence, we need to address this issue continually.
After citing the passage, Ehrman (60) says:
The problems with this passage should be obvious to anyone with even a casual knowledge of Josephus…. He was thoroughly and ineluctably Jewish and certainly never converted to be a follower of Jesus. But this passage contains comments that only a Christian would make: that Jesus was more than a man, that he was the messiah, and that he arose from the dead in fulfillment of the scriptures. In the judgment of most scholars, there is simply no way Josephus the Jew would or could have written such things. So how did these comments get into his writings?
Ehrman goes on to explain, “When Christian scribes copied the text, they added a few words here and there to make sure that the reader would get the point. This is that Jesus, the superhuman messiah raised from the dead as the scriptures predicted.”
You seem a little too self critical. Self examination is awesome. Kicking the crap out of yourself is not.
You're definitely not a bad person. I don't think so anyway.
The bolded part. It reminds me of what St. Paul wrote in Romans (7:15) "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do."
I smoke cigarettes. I hate them, the smell, the taste. I hate feeling that they have control over me. That addiction thing. But you don't want to know the geekzilla that would be unleashed if I tried to quit right now.
I drink way too much coffee, which is really hard on my remaining kidney. Though it is made mostly of water, so I am drinking water. :-p
We all struggle with our own things. It doesn't make us bad. Just human.
I wished I could change it but it is really hard being in my head. I will be sitting some place and just suddenly blurt out curse words involuntarily because I thought of a regret and I am filled with regret. I will get so shamed and then have to leave where I am. I think people go a bit crazy cause they can't be in they own head.
Many have written about Spiderman. The point being? I too can write about ANY ONE.
Well, I'll leave it to the archeologists, scholars, and historians to wade through what is and is not true, in their area of "expertise". What they can't do, is convince me He's not alive, because I've met Him and He's alive in ME. Peace
Well, I'll leave it to the archeologists, scholars, and historians to wade through what is and is not true, in their area of "expertise". What they can't do, is convince me He's not alive, because I've met Him and He's alive in ME. Peace
Now that is a testimony, if you walk the talk, with which no one can rightfully argue against. And it should depend on no "evidence" other than what God put in your heart.
If you really want to *let it die* then you and any other atheist need to quit bringing up the topic specifically to argue.
I am certain that the atheist who scream that they don't believe in God read and study the Bible a wee bit more than those who do believe in God.
I never understood how any of them have always had so much to say about someone they say does not exist but I will give them credit where it is due. They are all very good at talking about *nothing* (does not exists equals nothing right)
Geekigurl, your biblical knowledge and sincere desire to walk closer with God while being an LGBT person is a conundrum for fundamentalists who prefer to be able to paint people they consider "sinners" with a broad "child of the devil brush."
At the same time there are many of us who are Christ followers whom they will paint with the same brush. None of us in that broad category fit into the mold of their perfect rulebook. They don't even let Jesus get in the way of protecting their idol. Jesus complements their idol rather than the Bible being a pointer toward Jesus.
I predict that if you stay long on these threads you will continue to undermine that idol while pointing to Jesus.
Keep it up! Christ followers can see Jesus in your posts.
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Your testimony is a conundrum for many
