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Old 03-10-2016, 11:18 AM
 
4,061 posts, read 3,733,787 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meester-Chung View Post
nope

Roman 14:5
One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind.

Romans Chapter 14 is about fasting and about choosing which days to eat or not to eat meat or what days to fast, it is not about choosing which ever day you please to worship as the Sabbath isnt being debated or mentioned anywhere in the entire book of Romans.

Rom 14:1-2 shows what the entire chapter will be focusing on
Romans 14

The Law of Liberty

14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge anotherís servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord;[a] and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lordís. 9 For to this end Christ died and rose[b] and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.[c] 11 For it is written:
ďAs I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.Ē[d]

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brotherís way.
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Old 03-10-2016, 08:50 PM
 
2,570 posts, read 901,352 times
Reputation: 2335
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash
Is there something sinful in worshipping and resting on the same day the Jews and Jesus did?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Only if you tell us we must do it to please God.
But, didn't GOD "tell us to do it" in the 4th-command of the Big Ten? I presume that you claim to believe in and adhere to the Ten Commandments? If so, if you don't 'remember' the Sabbath as per the 4th-command and keep it holy as God commands, then how do you justify this to your congregation if they should ask?

Note: I personally have no horse in this race. I belong to no church these days and don't keep any specific day as "the Sabbath" myself. It's just that the majority of those Christians who can't help themselves from 'throwing heaps of Bible condemnation' on others (specifically gay people) are guilty of glaring 'disobedience to God' themselves ...MAJORLY in this case since they are in violation of the Ten Commandments which are seen as the cornerstone of their Christian belief system. Moreover, they can never come up with a suitable reason as to WHY they choose to 'profane' the Sabbath.

Back to the Ten Commandments, should a court or some other establishment remove the Ten Commandments from their buildings there is generally a huge outcry from Christians in the area. Why? They only keep NINE of them anyway. Even that might be debatable ...

While I and others discovered this long ago but it might bear repeating, there appears to be a combination of ignorance, double standards and good old-fashioned hypocrisy going on within Christendom! Is it any wonder Christianity is losing ground throughout the world ...?
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Old 03-11-2016, 10:17 AM
 
19,952 posts, read 13,027,093 times
Reputation: 1957
Quote:
Originally Posted by RomulusXXV View Post
But, didn't GOD "tell us to do it" in the 4th-command of the Big Ten? I presume that you claim to believe in and adhere to the Ten Commandments? If so, if you don't 'remember' the Sabbath as per the 4th-command and keep it holy as God commands, then how do you justify this to your congregation if they should ask?

Note: I personally have no horse in this race. I belong to no church these days and don't keep any specific day as "the Sabbath" myself. It's just that the majority of those Christians who can't help themselves from 'throwing heaps of Bible condemnation' on others (specifically gay people) are guilty of glaring 'disobedience to God' themselves ...MAJORLY in this case since they are in violation of the Ten Commandments which are seen as the cornerstone of their Christian belief system. Moreover, they can never come up with a suitable reason as to WHY they choose to 'profane' the Sabbath.

Back to the Ten Commandments, should a court or some other establishment remove the Ten Commandments from their buildings there is generally a huge outcry from Christians in the area. Why? They only keep NINE of them anyway. Even that might be debatable ...

While I and others discovered this long ago but it might bear repeating, there appears to be a combination of ignorance, double standards and good old-fashioned hypocrisy going on within Christendom! Is it any wonder Christianity is losing ground throughout the world ...?
Jesus himself removed the requirement to observe a day of the week. In his sermon on the mount he reiterated every single one of the 10 Commandments--even taking them a step further. For example, instead of not just murdering, even hating is sinful. Not just adultery..but lust is sinful. He went down the list and checked them all off.

Except for the Sabbath. Weird, huh?

Hebrews 4 goes into the idea that instead of holding to the Mosaic Law in order to please God, we should instead be resting in the fact that Jesus did it for us. He is our Sabbath rest--not a day of the week.

This is a good article to explain it: How is Jesus our Sabbath Rest?
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Old 03-11-2016, 05:20 PM
 
Location: On the Edge of the Fringe
4,670 posts, read 3,751,643 times
Reputation: 3935
man walks into the woman's department store and tells the sales clerk he wants to buy a bra for his wife.
"What type of bra?" asked the clerk.
"Type?" inquires the man. "There is more than one type?"
"There are three types," replies the clerk. "The Catholic type, the Salvation Army type, and the Adventist type. Which one do you need?"
Still confused the man asks, "What is the difference in them?"
The clerk reponds, "It is really very easy. The Catholic type supports the massess, the Salvation Army lifts up the fallen, and the Adventist type makes mountains out of mole hills."
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Old 03-11-2016, 06:00 PM
 
214 posts, read 458,306 times
Reputation: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by vizio View Post
jesus himself removed the requirement to observe a day of the week. In his sermon on the mount he reiterated every single one of the 10 commandments--even taking them a step further. For example, instead of not just murdering, even hating is sinful. Not just adultery..but lust is sinful. He went down the list and checked them all off.

Except for the sabbath. Weird, huh?

Hebrews 4 goes into the idea that instead of holding to the mosaic law in order to please god, we should instead be resting in the fact that jesus did it for us. He is our sabbath rest--not a day of the week.

This is a good article to explain it: how is jesus our sabbath rest?
+1
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Old 03-11-2016, 10:15 PM
 
17,955 posts, read 8,947,970 times
Reputation: 1507
Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeKingCat View Post
Man walks into the woman's department store and tells the sales clerk he wants to buy a bra for his wife. "What type of bra?" asked the clerk. "Type?" inquires the man. "There is more than one type?"

"There are three types," replies the clerk. "The Catholic type, the Salvation Army type, and the Adventist type. Which one do you need?" Still confused the man asks, "What is the difference in them?"

The clerk responds, "It is really very easy. The Catholic type supports the massess, the Salvation Army lifts up the fallen, and the Adventist type makes mountains out of mole hills."
The Itty-Bitty-***** Committee.

Matthew 7:2
For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged.
And with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

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Old 03-11-2016, 11:19 PM
 
2,570 posts, read 901,352 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Jesus himself removed the requirement to observe a day of the week.
Now, why would He even think to do that? Taking a day's break from work is a good thing. It's especially a good thing if the day of rest was blessed and sanctified at Creation AND ALSO kept by Jesus as was His custom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
In his sermon on the mount he reiterated every single one of the 10 Commandments--even taking them a step further. For example, instead of not just murdering, even hating is sinful. Not just adultery..but lust is sinful. He went down the list and checked them all off.

Except for the Sabbath. Weird, huh?
No, not weird at all. Quite understandable. The people Jesus was preaching to were already keeping the Sabbath ...it was a natural part of their weekly routine. Whether or not they wished to disregard the Sabbath or replace it with another day would not have even been on their radar. There was no dispute as to which day was the Sabbath. There was no need to remind people to do something that they were already doing. Keeping the 7th-day Sabbath was simply something that the Jews did and STILL DO!

You're coming at this from a long held traditional "Sunday is the Sabbath" mindset. It's become a part of mainstream Christian culture and, while you should probably know that there IS a scriptural discrepancy going on here, you have to support the party line of your particular church. Why don't you be honest and admit that this IS (likely) the case? You know which day is the Sabbath and you also know that it's included as a command in the Ten Commandments. Does mainstream Christianity believe in the TEN commandments or there only now nine? How do you reconcile the elimination on one command and still come up with ten? Incidentally, the Catholics already did this!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Hebrews 4 goes into the idea that instead of holding to the Mosaic Law in order to please God, we should instead be resting in the fact that Jesus did it for us. He is our Sabbath rest--not a day of the week.
Hebrews 4 is a scripture that has been used to support a false doctrine, a scripture that was NEVER intended to be used to support either a bogus sabbath or the abrogation of the Creation Sabbath. Church leaders know or should know that there is NO scripture that supports the abolition of the Creation Sabbath. They also know or should know that Sunday is NOT the 7th-day Creation Sabbath referenced in commandment #4 of the Big Ten. But, since MOST of their congregation BELIEVES that Sunday is the Sabbath or are otherwise (most probably) apathetic or oblivious to the issue, the 'status quo' must be maintained by the church hierarchy at all costs. The survival of the Church depends on it. The survival of the Church hierarchy depends on it. The survival of pastors and ministers depends on it. So, the best way to convince any 'questioning ones' of the church flock (very few, fortunately for church leaders) is to take an ambiguous scripture (Hebrews 4) that the average Christian could never understand on their own and make it fit a deceptive religious custom. In other words, mainstream Christendom is covering it's own butt!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
This is a good article to explain it: How is Jesus our Sabbath Rest?
Deception with a capital D. And, I think you know it. Tell me, if you (you're a pastor, right?) were to tell your congregation that the church has gotten it wrong and, from now on, the church will open its doors on Saturday since Saturday is the Sabbath referred to in the Ten Commandments ...would you still have a church?
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Old 03-11-2016, 11:22 PM
 
2,570 posts, read 901,352 times
Reputation: 2335
Quote:
Originally Posted by vizio
jesus himself removed the requirement to observe a day of the week. In his sermon on the mount he reiterated every single one of the 10 commandments--even taking them a step further. For example, instead of not just murdering, even hating is sinful. Not just adultery..but lust is sinful. He went down the list and checked them all off.

Except for the sabbath. Weird, huh?

Hebrews 4 goes into the idea that instead of holding to the mosaic law in order to please god, we should instead be resting in the fact that jesus did it for us. He is our sabbath rest--not a day of the week.

This is a good article to explain it: how is jesus our sabbath rest?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlcamp View Post
+1
Why on earth would you give 'deception' a +1?
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Old 03-12-2016, 11:42 AM
 
Location: US
26,417 posts, read 14,013,122 times
Reputation: 1603
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Jesus himself removed the requirement to observe a day of the week. In his sermon on the mount he reiterated every single one of the 10 Commandments--even taking them a step further. For example, instead of not just murdering, even hating is sinful. Not just adultery..but lust is sinful. He went down the list and checked them all off.

Except for the Sabbath. Weird, huh?

Hebrews 4 goes into the idea that instead of holding to the Mosaic Law in order to please God, we should instead be resting in the fact that Jesus did it for us. He is our Sabbath rest--not a day of the week.

This is a good article to explain it: How is Jesus our Sabbath Rest?
So, omission is your confirmation?...
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Old 03-12-2016, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Summit, NJ
1,391 posts, read 1,279,391 times
Reputation: 1582
It's interesting that the entire "debunking" discussion has rested on which day of the week they observe the Sabbath. Of course, I don't know much Adventist theology beyond that.

No, I didn't watch the video.
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