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Old 03-11-2016, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,557 posts, read 7,013,428 times
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Awhile back I had an exchange of ideas with a Conservative Friend in which I said that I did not believe that God made arbitrary laws; that any prohibitions or requirements would be based on a reason that had to do with the well-being of anyone subject to it. He said that sometimes God simply said that something is sin without any reason but that He so considered it.

What is your take?

A relevant quote (and, incidentally, the answer to those who say that we who argue foir the morality of same-sex unions as an example have an "anything goes morality) is found in 1 Cor 6 and 10 in the statements by Paul that "All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify."

I take it that the well-known point that we are not under Law, but Grace (in other words, that the standard for judgement is different) was taken (as by so many literalists here) to mean that we could do "whatever feels good," but that does not take into consideration the constraints that we ARE under: that concern for the well-being of everyone in any situation that is agape. In simple terms the consideration is whether any action (or inaction) would be harmful.

I believe this is the only standard by whicch to judge ultimately and any perceived "rules of conduct" should be examined in that light.
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Old 03-11-2016, 09:36 AM
 
19,952 posts, read 12,984,198 times
Reputation: 1957
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
Awhile back I had an exchange of ideas with a Conservative Friend in which I said that I did not believe that God made arbitrary laws; that any prohibitions or requirements would be based on a reason that had to do with the well-being of anyone subject to it. He said that sometimes God simply said that something is sin without any reason but that He so considered it.

What is your take?

A relevant quote (and, incidentally, the answer to those who say that we who argue foir the morality of same-sex unions as an example have an "anything goes morality) is found in 1 Cor 6 and 10 in the statements by Paul that "All things are lawful, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful, but not all things edify."

I take it that the well-known point that we are not under Law, but Grace (in other words, that the standard for judgement is different) was taken (as by so many literalists here) to mean that we could do "whatever feels good," but that does not take into consideration the constraints that we ARE under: that concern for the well-being of everyone in any situation that is agape. In simple terms the consideration is whether any action (or inaction) would be harmful.

I believe this is the only standard by whicch to judge ultimately and any perceived "rules of conduct" should be examined in that light.
The Law is still in effect not as a measuring stick of our spiritual achievement but as a guide to tell us when we have sinned. We can know that we have sinned by looking at the commands of God. So in answer to the question of same-sex unions? God has specifically declared that to be sinful. He even gave explicit instructions on what marriage is, and he created the 2 people that were a part of it.

Having said that, does God just arbitrarily pick and choose what is sin and what isn't? My answer is no. I'd have to think on it some more, but that's what I'm going with. But having said that, the reasons for his commands are not necessarily always clear to us--especially when it's a command given specifically to a group of people living 3000 years ago in the desert.

But the point that Paul was making is that although we have freedom to do things that may have been prohibited under the Law, they are not beneficial to us.
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Old 03-11-2016, 11:29 AM
 
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Actions are not "things", they are deeds.

hope this helps.
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Old 03-11-2016, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,557 posts, read 7,013,428 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowball7 View Post
Actions are not "things", they are deeds.

hope this helps.
It sure does; so the "things" may be lawful and it doesn't matter as long as you don't participate? Uh, wait.
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Old 03-11-2016, 12:54 PM
 
4,221 posts, read 1,966,147 times
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It is written that judgment shall be done righteously.

"Judgment shall be done with righteousness and all the upright of heart shall follow it."

"Stop judging by appearances, judge righteously."

"Anyone who rejects me and does not accept my word he already has His judge namely the words I have spoken"
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Old 03-11-2016, 02:09 PM
 
9,985 posts, read 6,392,600 times
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1 Corinthians 6, 12-20
The Evil of Immorality


Sacredness of the Body.
12. All things are lawful for me: more commonly these words, twice repeated in the verse,
are taken as a quoted principle of the Corinthians, and the words following "but" in each case,
as Paul's comment on it.
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Old 03-11-2016, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,557 posts, read 7,013,428 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
The Law is still in effect not as a measuring stick of our spiritual achievement but as a guide to tell us when we have sinned. We can know that we have sinned by looking at the commands of God. So in answer to the question of same-sex unions? God has specifically declared that to be sinful. He even gave explicit instructions on what marriage is, and he created the 2 people that were a part of it.
....
But the point that Paul was making is that although we have freedom to do things that may have been prohibited under the Law, they are not beneficial to us.
So that's how you know not to eat shrimp?

No, Vizio, he was stating a condition for determining the value of things that are "lawful."
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Old 03-11-2016, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,557 posts, read 7,013,428 times
Reputation: 1605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowball7 View Post
1 Corinthians 6, 12-20
The Evil of Immorality


Sacredness of the Body.
12. All things are lawful for me: more commonly these words, twice repeated in the verse,
are taken as a quoted principle of the Corinthians, and the words following "but" in each case,
as Paul's comment on it.
It is obvious that they were taking a teaching of Paul in an inappropriate way and he was showing them how they were misapplying the principle.
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Old 03-11-2016, 02:47 PM
 
19,952 posts, read 12,984,198 times
Reputation: 1957
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
So that's how you know not to eat shrimp?
Actually, that's a part of the civil law. It was a command given to the Israelites, not us. Remember the vision Peter had and God told him he could eat what was previously said to be unclean?
Quote:
No, Vizio, he was stating a condition for determining the value of things that are "lawful."
I'm sorry--could you elaborate?
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Old 03-11-2016, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Southern Oregon
15,557 posts, read 7,013,428 times
Reputation: 1605
Quote:
Originally Posted by nateswift View Post
So that's how you know not to eat shrimp?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
Actually, that's a part of the civil law. It was a command given to the Israelites, not us.
So you really can't just read the Bible and go by God's commands, it's a lot more complicated?

You said:
But the point that Paul was making is that although we have freedom to do things that may have been prohibited under the Law, they are not beneficial to us.

No, Vizio, he was stating a condition for determining the value of things that are "lawful."[/quote]I'm sorry--could you elaborate?[/quote]
You simply limit the point Paul was making: when Law is not the factor by which we need to conduct our lives, then what needs to be considered is the value of our action or inaction.
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