U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-22-2016, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
10,085 posts, read 4,174,433 times
Reputation: 6371

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
Winston Churchill wisely said those who fail to understand the past are doomed to repeat it. Throughout history this has been darn near axiomatic. It certainly was between the two world wars.
You know I have heard this all of my life and so far I have not seen history repeating itself. Besides it has nothing to do with what I am talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
So why wouldn't I understand that to be true with religious history? Why would I forget the past? History is a key to what runs through the human heart--because the worst parts of humanity always make the loudest splash.
You mean like the loudest splash made when the colonists first came to the Americas and viewed it as their "promised land", a land that was "granted to them by "god"?

Or when in 1634 John Winthrop, governor of the pious Massachusetts Bay Colony, wrote, "for the natives, they are near all dead of the smallpox, so as the Lord hath cleared our title to what we possess." His comments clearly hearken back to the Old Testament scriptures, of which he was such a devout believer.

Many of the early American settlers and explorers believed that the diseases that befell the natives were proof of God's "Divine Providence" helping them to conquer the land.

Over a hundred million natives died under European occupation throughout North and South America between the 1500s and the 1900s, millions of these being directly killed by enslavement and war. The killing of natives and the taking of their land was sanctioned by both the Catholic Church in South America and the many Protestant sects in North America. "Divine Providence" and "God's Will" were almost always invoked as the justifications for the extermination of "savages".

In addition to the sanctioning of genocide, the Christian religion was used to justify slavery as well. Not only was slavery sanctioned in the Old Testament, but it is sanctioned in the New Testament also. The founding fathers of The Church also supported slavery.

In 1705 the Virginia Slave Codes were passed in America, which were quickly followed by similar laws in other states.

All servants imported and brought into the Country...who were not Christians in their native Country...shall be accounted and be slaves. All Negro, mulatto and Indian slaves within this dominion...shall be held to be real estate. If any slave resist his master...correcting such slave, and shall happen to be killed in such correction...the master shall be free of all punishment...as if such accident never happened.

Yes indeed this is exactly the type of History that all of us need to be aware of ensuring that it never happens again!!!

Now I will repeat:

What we need today is for people to find ways to cultivate love, compassion, and a balanced mind body and spirit without having to "believe" in ancient mythological religious characters or religion. Spiritual development is not a One Size Fits All discipline.

People of today need to awaken to their own ways of discovering how to cultivate love, compassion, and a balanced mind body and spirit.


That is what the world truly needs today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
Do you resent my faith in God when it has resulted in turning in me embracing "Love thy neighbor as thyself" as the criteria not only for how I act but even how I believe?
I have no resentment about anything that you want to believe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
Would you not at least agree with Ghandi who told a western reporter, "Your Jesus, I like. Your Christians, not so much?"
Ghandi was a wise soul. Some of the best spiritual teachers came out of India.

Last edited by Matadora; 03-22-2016 at 08:52 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-23-2016, 12:15 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,612 posts, read 5,129,569 times
Reputation: 3917
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
You know I have heard this all of my life and so far I have not seen history repeating itself. Besides it has nothing to do with what I am talking about.

You mean like the loudest splash made when the colonists first came to the Americas and viewed it as their "promised land", a land that was "granted to them by "god"?

Or when in 1634 John Winthrop, governor of the pious Massachusetts Bay Colony, wrote, "for the natives, they are near all dead of the smallpox, so as the Lord hath cleared our title to what we possess." His comments clearly hearken back to the Old Testament scriptures, of which he was such a devout believer.

Many of the early American settlers and explorers believed that the diseases that befell the natives were proof of God's "Divine Providence" helping them to conquer the land.

Over a hundred million natives died under European occupation throughout North and South America between the 1500s and the 1900s, millions of these being directly killed by enslavement and war. The killing of natives and the taking of their land was sanctioned by both the Catholic Church in South America and the many Protestant sects in North America. "Divine Providence" and "God's Will" were almost always invoked as the justifications for the extermination of "savages".

In addition to the sanctioning of genocide, the Christian religion was used to justify slavery as well. Not only was slavery sanctioned in the Old Testament, but it is sanctioned in the New Testament also. The founding fathers of The Church also supported slavery.

In 1705 the Virginia Slave Codes were passed in America, which were quickly followed by similar laws in other states.

All servants imported and brought into the Country...who were not Christians in their native Country...shall be accounted and be slaves. All Negro, mulatto and Indian slaves within this dominion...shall be held to be real estate. If any slave resist his master...correcting such slave, and shall happen to be killed in such correction...the master shall be free of all punishment...as if such accident never happened.

Yes indeed this is exactly the type of History that all of us need to be aware of ensuring that it never happens again!!!

Now I will repeat:

What we need today is for people to find ways to cultivate love, compassion, and a balanced mind body and spirit without having to "believe" in ancient mythological religious characters or religion. Spiritual development is not a One Size Fits All discipline.

People of today need to awaken to their own ways of discovering how to cultivate love, compassion, and a balanced mind body and spirit.


That is what the world truly needs today.
I have no resentment about anything that you want to believe.
Ghandi was a wise soul. Some of the best spiritual teachers came out of India.
But history DOES repeat itself--at least in broad terms!! Don't think so? How about this:



The problem is too many always look in short-sighted fashion and simple solutions to great problems. Maybe what was always hurting morale was war, but we could avoid thinking about that possibility by focusing on details that didn't make a bit of difference (blacks, women, gays).

We now have the Donald proposing a kind of American isolationism and Cruz wanting to patrol Muslim neighborhoods in America (which sound very like the early Gestapo circa 1932-33?).

And congratulations on a very nice parry without commitment and without revealing your thoughts in this interesting line in response to my question if you "could agree with Ghandi's words" about Jesus :

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matadora View Post
Ghandi was a wise soul. Some of the best spiritual teachers came out of India.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2016, 12:30 AM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 °N, 🌄°W
10,085 posts, read 4,174,433 times
Reputation: 6371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
But history DOES repeat itself--at least in broad terms!! Don't think so? How about this:
Well the US with it's Military Industrial Complex is not something to be proud of. Men wanting to take over the world is not something to be proud of but we are not seeing too much of this anymore. There are not many countries in the world ruled by military dictators as we have seen in the past.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
The problem is too many always look in short-sighted fashion and simple solutions to great problems. Maybe what was always hurting morale was war, but we could avoid thinking about that possibility by focusing on details.
I agree but that's certainly not me. It is going to take Centuries for humans to realize that religion as we have seen it up through today is a failure and not the way to go about developing true spirituality. It does not teach people how to maintain a balanced mind, body and spirit. It takes more than just reading an old antiquated book and simply believing what it says in order to maintain a balanced mind, body and spirit. If you need evidence just take a look at the posts in this part of the forum. Take a good look around at countries ruled by religion. Take a look at how warped the US has become. It's pretty clear that religion is not the answer and it's going to take eons to change this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
We now have the Donald proposing a kind of American isolationism and Cruz wanting to patrol Muslim neighborhoods in America (which sound very like the early Gestapo circa 1932-33?).
Cruz is very scary and if you want to see the US become some fundamental government making decisions based on religious beliefs then Cruz is your man. The US is so close to turning into another Nazi like country but in the sense of ultra fundamental idiots calling the shots. It's pretty darn scary where we are headed as a Nation...but that's a discussion for another forum.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wardendresden View Post
And congratulations on a very nice parry without commitment and without revealing your thoughts in this interesting line in response to my question if you could agree with Ghandi's words :
No I was not parrying. I just think Ghandi was being polite.

Look it does not take only Jesus teachings to become a loving kind compassionate human. Why worship a person you have never met, most likely did not exist and is attached to the most ignorant superstitious prosperous myth ever created? Why limit yourself to a One Size Fits All way to go about spiritual development? Why would you want to be apart of a religion that teaches nothing but a very narrowly constrained way to go about spiritual growth and development? Or a religion that has harmed humanity for Centuries in the name of that religion?

Did you just skip over this?
Quote:
You mean like the loudest splash made when the colonists first came to the Americas and viewed it as their "promised land", a land that was "granted to them by "god"?

Or when in 1634 John Winthrop, governor of the pious Massachusetts Bay Colony, wrote, "for the natives, they are near all dead of the smallpox, so as the Lord hath cleared our title to what we possess." His comments clearly hearken back to the Old Testament scriptures, of which he was such a devout believer.

Many of the early American settlers and explorers believed that the diseases that befell the natives were proof of God's "Divine Providence" helping them to conquer the land.

Over a hundred million natives died under European occupation throughout North and South America between the 1500s and the 1900s, millions of these being directly killed by enslavement and war. The killing of natives and the taking of their land was sanctioned by both the Catholic Church in South America and the many Protestant sects in North America. "Divine Providence" and "God's Will" were almost always invoked as the justifications for the extermination of "savages".

In addition to the sanctioning of genocide, the Christian religion was used to justify slavery as well. Not only was slavery sanctioned in the Old Testament, but it is sanctioned in the New Testament also. The founding fathers of The Church also supported slavery.

In 1705 the Virginia Slave Codes were passed in America, which were quickly followed by similar laws in other states.

All servants imported and brought into the Country...who were not Christians in their native Country...shall be accounted and be slaves. All Negro, mulatto and Indian slaves within this dominion...shall be held to be real estate. If any slave resist his master...correcting such slave, and shall happen to be killed in such correction...the master shall be free of all punishment...as if such accident never happened.
I want no part of any religion that can do this in the name of that religion. No thanks I much rather walk my own spiritual path. It's what I have done for the past 30 years without any problems at all.

Thankfully I live in a country that allows this. However if the fundamentalists gain control we will turn into what happen to the Arab world after their Golden Age collapsed. They were destroyed by christianity. They burned all math and science books and the Arab world has NEVER recovered from the damage that christianity did to destroy their Golden Age. We will end up living in the caves if we keep heading down the path we are as a Nation. It does not help when we have a scientifically illiterate majority in the US. You can bet fundies love this. This is how dumb they are...they don't get that when your country is no longer on the forefront of scientific discovery and innovation then your country will collapse just like how the Golden Age was destroyed. The fact that we have the type of candidates running for President should tell you something about the people in this country. Also the elected officials that we have in other areas of our government should tell you a lot about the types of voters we have. It's pretty scary. Our system is broken and add then add a fundy president to it.

You have all the answers inside of you...you just have to figure out how to extract them and one for sure well know method is meditation...you know that thing most Westerners have NO CLUE about.

I have much more love, kindness and compassion towards others and I was born this way. I did not have to be taught these very basic innate attributes. All of us are born with these innate attributes.

When it comes time to work on my inner peace I work on it in other ways than you...can't you just accept that?

Last edited by Matadora; 03-23-2016 at 01:49 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2016, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Hong Kong
689 posts, read 416,757 times
Reputation: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
There seems to be only two views on how to address the discrepancies found between the differing gospel accounts.

1. They are actually different events, or they are told from different perspectives. (orthodox/fundamentalist)

2. They prove that the writers were making it all up, getting their facts confused. (skeptic)

Neither of these views really makes sense. Which is why I think the truth is something like this:

3. They are intentional, and the writers were highly educated. Their purpose is to tell the reader that the stories are not factual, in case they were unable to gather that from the clues within the text themselves. There is a deeper meaning that the writer is trying to convey. If the reader is not smart enough to catch the clues, then perhaps the differences will get his attention.

What do you think of this third view?
That's the common behavior of true human witnessing. Try to sit in a court, you will be able to speculate the same. It is because human's attention and focus to the same event can be very different.

For an example, you met with 2 guys coming across you. You greeted them both then confirmed an address with one of them. You may thus write, I met with one person on the street to get the confirmation. You can also say that I met with 2 persons on the street to get the confirmation. In terms of human witnessing, this is not a discrepancy, rather it's a matter of perspective variance in attention and focus.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2016, 04:47 PM
 
37,579 posts, read 25,282,626 times
Reputation: 5860
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
It is quite presumptuous of you to make a blanket dismissal of trained and educated scholars and historians as ignorant.
A valid point, but why is it that you do not believe that people during the 1st century and earlier were NOT ignorant and superstitious despite the masses of evidence indicating they were????
Quote:
There is valid historical evidence not only for the existence of Jesus, but for His resurrection. Whether or not you personally can be objective enough to accept that evidence, many others have been able to accept it.
Yes, Jesus existed, and He is the Son of God. He came into the world to die for your sins so that you can have eternal life through faith in Him.
True. He did indeed die because of our ancestors' sins (ignorance =missing the mark) and brutal savagery.
Quote:
I will leave you with the following videos dealing with the subject of the resurrection. You owe it to yourself to listen to them. But do with them what you will.
I watched them all and found them quite interesting. They present a case that seems largely dependent upon the rationale that it was true because they believed it so fervently they were willing to be tortured and murdered for their beliefs. It would be more compelling if we did not have examples of such fervent belief even today in the form of suicide bombers. Should we believe what they believe because of it??? Much of what you believe I agree with Mike, but for very different reasons and based on very different interpretations of the same Bible you and your mentors use.

What you refuse to accept and acknowledge is that our ignorant ancient ancestors were steeped in savage and barbaric beliefs about God that had no basis in fact. They thought everything was done by God, including their own decisions and actions. If someone was accidentally crippled, they thought God did it. That is why they would not treat them any better than God did. They were horrible to cripples. Let's face it, these were people who actually threw babies live into fire to appease God. The primitive and absurd notion of blood sacrifices to appease God is what has corrupted Christ's message. It was ingrained even in the fables they believed. Noah sacrificed the very animals he supposedly saved from extinction for pete's sake!!

If Jesus was NOT human or did not exist, then everything He accomplished in the narrative is pointless. As you know, in my view God is consciousness (Spirit) and we are to reproduce His consciousness (Spirit). We were so primitive and barbaric that none of us were able to do it. Jesus was the first-born human to actually possess a consciousness that was able to achieve perfect resonance with God's consciousness (Holy Spirit). By doing so, He connected the entire collective human consciousness to God's consciousness saving our species from permanent separation from God. That is why we have nothing to do with it and we just need to have faith that He did it. His death was never a payment to or punishment from God. It was the result of the ignorance, barbarity, and brutality of our ancestors (sins=missing the mark) because "they knew not what they did."

Jesus endured it because He came to reveal the TRUE NATURE of God - agape love. He loved even His torturers and murderers, something none of us would have been able to do. In that sense, Jesus was our substitute, but NOT as a scapegoat. He was our "designated hitter" and He hit a Grand Slam. Upon His death, he was "born again" as Spirit (pure consciousness) in a spiritual body as we will be upon our deaths. This spiritual body had the ability to affect our consciousness and the interpretation of our senses. In this way Jesus could appear to be physical to allay the fears of our superstitious ancestors who were TERRIFIED of Spirits. Unlike your video claims, there was nothing they feared more than Spirits and demons. That's why they needed the illusion of a physical body despite the fact that no physical body could go through walls and closed doors as Jesus purportedly did.

The apostles were clear that they were feeding carnal milk to their followers because they were not ready for solid food. Unfortunately, instead of learning and revising their understanding , the religious leaders codified and retained the carnal milk and demanded belief in it as a sign of faith in God. All their efforts went into defending the carnal milk instead of discerning the truth. There are more than enough inconsistencies and outright contradictions in the Bible to reveal the clues to the solid food, but they defended them instead of used them to revise their understanding. I believe that the narrative as currently promoted by the Christian mainstream is preposterous and pointless and is actually anti-Christ because it interprets Christ's unambiguous demonstration of God's true nature as agape love as appeasing the wrathful, vengeful God who our barbaric ancestors believed required blood sacrifices. The apostate majority today who are accepting the appeasement narrative was prophesied for these latter days as was their reliance on fables and old wives tales, etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2016, 05:35 PM
 
20,322 posts, read 15,674,976 times
Reputation: 7436
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
A valid point, but why is it that you do not believe that people during the 1st century and earlier were NOT ignorant and superstitious despite the masses of evidence indicating they were????
Concern yourself with your own ignorance.

Quote:
True. He did indeed die because of our ancestors' sins (ignorance =missing the mark) and brutal savagery.
Jesus died for our sins in that He paid the penalty for our sins, as our substitute, in our place, as is clearly taught in the Bible.


Quote:
I watched them all and found them quite interesting. They present a case that seems largely dependent upon the rationale that it was true because they believed it so fervently they were willing to be tortured and murdered for their beliefs. It would be more compelling if we did not have examples of such fervent belief even today in the form of suicide bombers. Should we believe what they believe because of it???
There is a difference in dying for what you believe in, and in dying for what you know to be true because you were an eyewitness to that which you are willing to die for. The apostles, including Paul, and James, the brother of Jesus were eyewitnesses to the risen Jesus.

Quote:
What you refuse to accept and acknowledge is that our ignorant ancient ancestors were steeped in savage and barbaric beliefs about God that had no basis in fact.
You sure do enjoy telling other people what they refuse to accept and acknowledge while refusing to accept and acknowledge that most of your personal beliefs are contrary to what the Bible teaches.

I didn't bother reading the rest of your post.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-23-2016, 06:35 PM
 
37,579 posts, read 25,282,626 times
Reputation: 5860
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
A valid point, but why is it that you do not believe that people during the 1st century and earlier were NOT ignorant and superstitious despite the masses of evidence indicating they were???? True. He did indeed die because of our ancestors' sins (ignorance =missing the mark) and brutal savagery. I watched them all and found them quite interesting. They present a case that seems largely dependent upon the rationale that it was true because they believed it so fervently they were willing to be tortured and murdered for their beliefs. It would be more compelling if we did not have examples of such fervent belief even today in the form of suicide bombers. Should we believe what they believe because of it??? Much of what you believe I agree with Mike, but for very different reasons and based on very different interpretations of the same Bible you and your mentors use.

What you refuse to accept and acknowledge is that our ignorant ancient ancestors were steeped in savage and barbaric beliefs about God that had no basis in fact. They thought everything was done by God, including their own decisions and actions. If someone was accidentally crippled, they thought God did it. That is why they would not treat them any better than God did. They were horrible to cripples. Let's face it, these were people who actually threw babies live into fire to appease God. The primitive and absurd notion of blood sacrifices to appease God is what has corrupted Christ's message. It was ingrained even in the fables they believed. Noah sacrificed the very animals he supposedly saved from extinction for pete's sake!!

If Jesus was NOT human or did not exist, then everything He accomplished in the narrative is pointless. As you know, in my view God is consciousness (Spirit) and we are to reproduce His consciousness (Spirit). We were so primitive and barbaric that none of us were able to do it. Jesus was the first-born human to actually possess a consciousness that was able to achieve perfect resonance with God's consciousness (Holy Spirit). By doing so, He connected the entire collective human consciousness to God's consciousness saving our species from permanent separation from God. That is why we have nothing to do with it and we just need to have faith that He did it. His death was never a payment to or punishment from God. It was the result of the ignorance, barbarity, and brutality of our ancestors (sins=missing the mark) because "they knew not what they did."

Jesus endured it because He came to reveal the TRUE NATURE of God - agape love. He loved even His torturers and murderers, something none of us would have been able to do. In that sense, Jesus was our substitute, but NOT as a scapegoat. He was our "designated hitter" and He hit a Grand Slam. Upon His death, he was "born again" as Spirit (pure consciousness) in a spiritual body as we will be upon our deaths. This spiritual body had the ability to affect our consciousness and the interpretation of our senses. In this way Jesus could appear to be physical to allay the fears of our superstitious ancestors who were TERRIFIED of Spirits. Unlike your video claims, there was nothing they feared more than Spirits and demons. That's why they needed the illusion of a physical body despite the fact that no physical body could go through walls and closed doors as Jesus purportedly did.

The apostles were clear that they were feeding carnal milk to their followers because they were not ready for solid food. Unfortunately, instead of learning and revising their understanding , the religious leaders codified and retained the carnal milk and demanded belief in it as a sign of faith in God. All their efforts went into defending the carnal milk instead of discerning the truth. There are more than enough inconsistencies and outright contradictions in the Bible to reveal the clues to the solid food, but they defended them instead of used them to revise their understanding. I believe that the narrative as currently promoted by the Christian mainstream is preposterous and pointless and is actually anti-Christ because it interprets Christ's unambiguous demonstration of God's true nature as agape love as appeasing the wrathful, vengeful God who our barbaric ancestors believed required blood sacrifices. The apostate majority today who are accepting the appeasement narrative was prophesied for these latter days as was their reliance on fables and old wives tales, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Concern yourself with your own ignorance.
Jesus died for our sins in that He paid the penalty for our sins, as our substitute, in our place, as is clearly taught in the Bible.
There is a difference in dying for what you believe in, and in dying for what you know to be true because you were an eyewitness to that which you are willing to die for. The apostles, including Paul, and James, the brother of Jesus were eyewitnesses to the risen Jesus.
You sure do enjoy telling other people what they refuse to accept and acknowledge while refusing to accept and acknowledge that most of your personal beliefs are contrary to what the Bible teaches.
I didn't bother reading the rest of your post.
The hallmark of willful ignorance! Why am I not surprised? You are content to meet your maker based on the primitive beliefs and superstitions of ignorant, Bronze-age savages and barbarians. Good thing for you that it doesn't matter thanks to Jesus.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2016, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Oregon
802 posts, read 293,012 times
Reputation: 46
Default Who first claimed that Jesue died for our sins.

Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post

Concern yourself with your own ignorance.

Jesus died for our sins in that He paid the penalty for our sins, as our substitute, in our place, as is clearly taught in the Bible.
There is a difference in dying for what you believe in, and in dying for what you know to be true because you were an eyewitness to that which you are willing to die for. The apostles, including Paul, and James, the brother of Jesus were eyewitnesses to the risen Jesus.
You sure do enjoy telling other people what they refuse to accept and acknowledge while refusing to accept and acknowledge that most of your personal beliefs are contrary to what the Bible teaches.
I didn't bother reading the rest of your post.

RESPONSE:

Jesus had a following of people who thouhgt highly of him even that he was the messiah. When the Romans crucified him for insurrection, they were greatly disappointed.

But about 55 AD Paul came up with the story that Jesus really died as a sacrifice to God for our sins (although God forbade human sacrifices). The story was popular and caught on, the later gospel writers picking it up. And a Resurrection and even an Ascension was added.

The Bible contains lots of yarns that some people take as being factual..

"The purpose of the divine act of substitution was ‘so that in him we might become the righteousness of God’ (2 Cor. 5:21). "

http://davidgpeterson.com/atonement/...auls-writings/

Last edited by Aristotle's Child; 03-24-2016 at 07:31 AM.. Reason: typos
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2016, 09:12 AM
 
20,322 posts, read 15,674,976 times
Reputation: 7436
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aristotle's Child View Post
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post

Concern yourself with your own ignorance.

Jesus died for our sins in that He paid the penalty for our sins, as our substitute, in our place, as is clearly taught in the Bible.
There is a difference in dying for what you believe in, and in dying for what you know to be true because you were an eyewitness to that which you are willing to die for. The apostles, including Paul, and James, the brother of Jesus were eyewitnesses to the risen Jesus.
You sure do enjoy telling other people what they refuse to accept and acknowledge while refusing to accept and acknowledge that most of your personal beliefs are contrary to what the Bible teaches.
I didn't bother reading the rest of your post.

RESPONSE:

Jesus had a following of people who thouhgt highly of him even that he was the messiah. When the Romans crucified him for insurrection, they were greatly disappointed.

But about 55 AD Paul came up with the story that Jesus really died as a sacrifice to God for our sins (although God forbade human sacrifices). The story was popular and caught on, the later gospel writers picking it up. And a Resurrection and even an Ascension was added.

The Bible contains lots of yarns that some people take as being factual..

"The purpose of the divine act of substitution was ‘so that in him we might become the righteousness of God’ (2 Cor. 5:21). "

Atonement in Paul’s Writings « David G Peterson - Theology and Worship
Paul did not make up the story that Jesus died as a sacrifice for our sins. Isaiah 53 clearly speaks of God's servant offering himself as a guilt offering for our transgressions. Jesus applied Isaiah 53 to Himself (Luke 22:37). The apostle Philip also taught that Isaiah 53 referred to Jesus (Acts 8:26-35).

That Jesus died for our sins and that He was resurrected was an oral tradition going all the way back to the beginning of the church. Scholars recognize a number of pre-Pauline creeds in the New Testament. 1 Corinthians 15:3-7 is one of them. The information that Paul passed down to the Corinthians in that passage concerning the fact that Jesus died for our sins, and that He was raised on the third day is recognized by scholars as information that he received most probably from Peter and James when he met with them some three years after his conversion. The fact that Paul received this information, again, most likely from Peter and James, doesn't negate the fact that Paul had originally been given the gospel message by the risen Jesus Himself.

Gary Habermas on the Pre-Pauline Creed of 1 Cor. 15.
1 Corinthians 15:3-7 is widely recognized by New Testament scholars as a statement of belief (creed) that was systematized long before Paul quoted it. If so, it represents the earliest historical account of Jesus’ resurrection, and goes back to the eyewitnesses themselves. Gary Habermas comments on the very early date of this creed, which even skeptical scholars acknowledge.

https://greatcloud.wordpress.com/201...d-of-1-cor-15/
Gary Habermas (Ph.D, Michigan State), distinguished professor and chair of the department of philosophy and theology al Liberty University in Lynchburg. Va., is a recognized authority on the resurrection of Jesus.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ay_Db4RwZ_M
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-24-2016, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
2,202 posts, read 1,323,575 times
Reputation: 1353
As snowball pointed out ....examples? These silly accusations. Is an attempt to remove the inspired word whereby the error factor ( in spite of what I will point out) was minimal and inconsequential. The modern communication tools we have distort that which was non existent back in the day ( of Jesus) . The disciples ( eventual apostles ) were taught by Jesus in close proximity in temple, buildings where He was heard. Jesus often taught near Gallilee ,but on the shore which rose up forming a quasi- amphitheater his voice able to resonate. How they were able to collaborate stories and quotes is in itself a miracle. How it all came together without cells, computers, shorthand, pens, mic's, amps, Aramaic translation ,Hebrew writings attempted to navigate to Latin Greek then English and survive the onslaught of religion is beyond comprehension. although not error ridden the church today is dislinked from the "meaning" of many words that in Hebrew would shine a better light on Gods original message ( made available, expectations by God that we would study and seek our roots , but religion has detoured and obscured it by ignorance by church ministries)

Last edited by openmike; 03-24-2016 at 10:09 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top