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Old 03-15-2016, 05:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
Neither of these views really makes sense. Which is why I think the truth is something like this:

3. They are intentional, and the writers were highly educated. Their purpose is to tell the reader that the stories are not factual, in case they were unable to gather that from the clues within the text themselves. There is a deeper meaning that the writer is trying to convey. If the reader is not smart enough to catch the clues, then perhaps the differences will get his attention.

What do you think of this third view?
It resonates with me. I have maintained that for the writings to remain applicable through generations and accumulating knowledge, they would have to contain clues to revise the earlier "carnal milk." The beauty of the system is that changes would NOT be necessary UNTIL the audience had acquired the necessary knowledge to recognize the clues. The parable of the wineskins speaks to this process, IMO. Sadly the religious leaders who were supposed to refine their understanding into "solid food" continued drinking the "carnal milk" as a sign of faith in God and taught their members to do the same.
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Old 03-15-2016, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Ohio
18,018 posts, read 13,243,316 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
What do you think of this third view?
Too strange for words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowball7 View Post
Examples ?
John 2:12 After this he went down to Capernaum with his mother and brothers and his disciples, and they stayed there a few days. 2:13 Now the Jewish feast of Passover was near, so Jesus went up to Jerusalem
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Old 03-15-2016, 07:20 PM
 
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At-a-glance/The Bible/201 - Religion-wiki - Wikia
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Old 03-15-2016, 09:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowball7 View Post
Examples ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post


John 2:12 After this he went down to Capernaum with his mother and brothers and his disciples, and they stayed there a few days. 2:13 Now the Jewish feast of Passover was near, so Jesus went up to Jerusalem
If you are referring to the reference about going down to Capernaum, but going up to Jerusalem, even though Capernaum is North of Jerusalem, and assuming that to be an error, you aren't thinking in terms of how the Jews understood the reference to 'going up to Jerusalem.'

It had nothing to do with direction. It was a reference to elevation. Jerusalem is at around 2,474 feet above sea level, while Capernaum on the shore of the Sea of Galilee (also called Lake Tiberias) was at an elevation of about 686 feet below sea level. Just about anywhere you began a trip to Jerusalem, you were going UP to Jerusalem.
''If you had been a believer in ancient Israel, you would have looked forward with great anticipation to the three annual religious festivals celebrated in Jerusalem – Passover/Unleavened Bread, Weeks (Pentecost), and Booths (Tabernacles). While you would worship the Lord in a local holy convocation each Sabbath day (Leviticus 23:3), it was only at festival times that you would trek with others from all the tribes for worship on a grand scale in the holy city (Deuteronomy 16:16). No matter where you began your pilgrimage, the journey always involved going up to Jerusalem. This is because the holy city was situated about 2500 feet above sea level on Mount Zion – higher ground than all that surrounded it.'' [Bolding mine]

Going Up to Jerusalem
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Old 03-15-2016, 10:03 PM
 
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I think he means the 40 days of fasting after the baptism

I posted a link that explains it perfectly
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Old 03-15-2016, 10:56 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
8,587 posts, read 5,115,237 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRob4JC View Post
You know - if each gospel were the same - there would be accusations that they copied each other.

People who want to find fault, will find fault. People who choose to believe, will believe.

Have a news event covered by a newspaper in Alabama, and in Massachusetts, and in California. Will the story have the same details? Does that mean the event did not take place?
This is a good post--and is exactly why the theme sounds true as opposed to "intelligent fiction." While lawyers like to delve for a detail that is out of place in order to conclude everything is suspect, that is not what historians do. They look for the thematic material and assume too much same material is in fact a collusion.

DRob4JC, that is exactly why fundamentalism's view of Scripture as inerrant and infallible destroys the very message they should be trying to get across. Instead, there will be ten different stories to "explain" how one writer had five women at the tomb, another three, and another just one. Non-believers see through that kind of malarkey and aren't attracted to search out a book defended by BS.

But when the theme is explained as truth of the resurrection being supported by a varying number eyewitnesses, it sounds as real as any 20-20 investigation. That's what happens when real eyewitnesses see things--they aren't always correct in the details.

Keep that in mind as you witness---offer a perfect Savior from imperfect eyewitnesses. That's what the entire Bible is---an imperfect witness to a glorious event--God dealing with men and how they responded. You can't be sidetracked by stupid details as "there couldn't have been a million Jews wandering around in the desert after escaping Egypt." Your response is "So what, maybe there were only 6000 and the oral history that went into Exodus exaggerated, it doesn't nullify the theme."

That's why I consider the OP's hypothesis to be ridiculous. Without a claim of perfection it is quite reliable in its basic message. Attempting to move it into a lawyer's world is probably the greatest error of fundamentalists---and why they so often come off as unreasonable.
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Old 03-16-2016, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Oregon
802 posts, read 292,441 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by granpa View Post
I think he means the 40 days of fasting after the baptism

I posted a link that explains it perfectly
RESPONSE:

If you read John's Gospel, Jesus attended the wedding feast at Cana with his family a few days after his baptism. There he turned many gallons of water into wine to keep the party going!
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Old 03-16-2016, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Oregon
802 posts, read 292,441 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyRules View Post
There seems to be only two views on how to address the discrepancies found between the differing gospel accounts.

1. They are actually different events, or they are told from different perspectives. (orthodox/fundamentalist)

2. They prove that the writers were making it all up, getting their facts confused. (skeptic)

Neither of these views really makes sense. Which is why I think the truth is something like this:

3. They are intentional, and the writers were highly educated. Their purpose is to tell the reader that the stories are not factual, in case they were unable to gather that from the clues within the text themselves. There is a deeper meaning that the writer is trying to convey. If the reader is not smart enough to catch the clues, then perhaps the differences will get his attention.

What do you think of this third view?
RESPONSE: How many Gospel stories do you think are also fictional..Keep in mind that these began to be written 40 years after Jesus' death.
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Old 03-16-2016, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
If you are referring to the reference about going down to Capernaum,...
No, that is not it.
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Old 03-17-2016, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
2,202 posts, read 1,319,865 times
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The only inconsistency I can find without a really good quality is how Judas died. Traditionally in suicide the person would fall on a sword. Scripture has one account of Judas falling on a sword evicerating his stomach. And in another account he hung himself in grief? What's up with that?

Last edited by openmike; 03-17-2016 at 06:55 AM..
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