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Old 03-29-2016, 09:37 AM
 
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 182,830 times
Reputation: 57

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Fiction can be defined as stories about people and events that, though untrue; are plausible; viz: realistic.

Fantasy can be defined as stories about people and events that are not only untrue; but implausible; viz: unrealistic.

For example: a story about a boy like Pinocchio is unrealistic; while a story about a boy with autism is realistic. The difference between Pinocchio and a boy with autism is that the one is compatible with normal reality; while the other is far removed from normal reality.

I have yet to read even one of Jesus Christ's parables that could not possibly be a real-life story. They're all actually quite believable. Now; if he had told one that alleged the moon was made of green cheese; we would have good reason to believe that at least that one was fantasy; but none of them are like that. At best; Christ's parables might qualify as fiction; but never fantasy because none of them are so far removed from normal reality that there is no possible chance of it ever being true.

Luke 16:19-31 is commonly alleged to be a parable; which of course implies that the story is fiction; and some would even say fantasy. But the parable theory has a fatal flaw. Abraham is not a fictional character: he's a real-life man; held in very high esteem by at least three of the world's prominent religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. And he's also the friend of God (Isa 41:8). I simply cannot believe that Jesus Christ-- a man famous among normal Christians for his honesty and integrity --would say something untrue about a famous real-life man; especially about one of his Father's buddies.

And on top of that, the story quotes Abraham a number of times. Well; if the story is fiction, then Jesus Christ is on record testifying that Abraham said things that he didn't really say; which is a clear violation of the commandment that prohibits bearing false witness.

There is something else to consider.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus didn't originate with Jesus Christ. No, it originated with his Father. In other words: Jesus Christ was micro managed.

. John 3:34 . . He is sent by God. He speaks God's words

. John 8:26 . . He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of Him.

. John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught me.

. John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

. John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.

So, by implying that Luke 16:19-31 is false, the parable theory insinuates that God is a person of marginal integrity who can't be trusted to tell the truth about people, not even about His own friends, which is ridiculous seeing as how Titus 1:2 and Heb 6:18 testify that God cannot lie.

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Old 03-29-2016, 08:14 PM
 
25 posts, read 28,281 times
Reputation: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyawehNyoh View Post
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Fiction can be defined as stories about people and events that, though untrue; are plausible; viz: realistic.

Fantasy can be defined as stories about people and events that are not only untrue; but implausible; viz: unrealistic.

For example: a story about a boy like Pinocchio is unrealistic; while a story about a boy with autism is realistic. The difference between Pinocchio and a boy with autism is that the one is compatible with normal reality; while the other is far removed from normal reality.

I have yet to read even one of Jesus Christ's parables that could not possibly be a real-life story. They're all actually quite believable. Now; if he had told one that alleged the moon was made of green cheese; we would have good reason to believe that at least that one was fantasy; but none of them are like that. At best; Christ's parables might qualify as fiction; but never fantasy because none of them are so far removed from normal reality that there is no possible chance of it ever being true.

Luke 16:19-31 is commonly alleged to be a parable; which of course implies that the story is fiction; and some would even say fantasy. But the parable theory has a fatal flaw. Abraham is not a fictional character: he's a real-life man; held in very high esteem by at least three of the world's prominent religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. And he's also the friend of God (Isa 41:8). I simply cannot believe that Jesus Christ-- a man famous among normal Christians for his honesty and integrity --would say something untrue about a famous real-life man; especially about one of his Father's buddies.

And on top of that, the story quotes Abraham a number of times. Well; if the story is fiction, then Jesus Christ is on record testifying that Abraham said things that he didn't really say; which is a clear violation of the commandment that prohibits bearing false witness.

There is something else to consider.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus didn't originate with Jesus Christ. No, it originated with his Father. In other words: Jesus Christ was micro managed.

. John 3:34 . . He is sent by God. He speaks God's words

. John 8:26 . . He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of Him.

. John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught me.

. John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

. John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.

So, by implying that Luke 16:19-31 is false, the parable theory insinuates that God is a person of marginal integrity who can't be trusted to tell the truth about people, not even about His own friends, which is ridiculous seeing as how Titus 1:2 and Heb 6:18 testify that God cannot lie.

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Would you say you have a relationship with God?
 
Old 03-31-2016, 09:11 PM
 
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 182,830 times
Reputation: 57
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. Luke 9:35 . . A voice came from the cloud, saying: This is my son, whom I have chosen; listen to him.

The chosen son referred to in that verse isn't Solomon; it's Jesus Christ. So then, it was the voice's command that the three apostles who accompanied the son listen to him rather than listen to anybody else.

Now, that's very important because Jesus Christ testified that people continue to exist after they die; while Solomon believed just the opposite.

Solomon spoke of death; but there's no textual evidence in the book of Ecclesiastes indicating that he had ever seen beyond death for himself to know what he was talking about. In contrast, there is an abundance of textual evidence indicating that Jesus Christ not only spoke of death, but he had seen beyond death for himself to know what he was talking about. (e.g. John 3:13, John 3:31-32, John 6:33, John 6:38, and 1John 1:1-3) So in my estimation, Christ's eye-witness reports carry far more weight than Solomon's opinions.

When people insist that we listen to Solomon instead of listening to Jesus Christ, they are insinuating that the voice in the cloud steered the apostles in the wrong direction. That's a terrible thing to insinuate seeing as how the speaker was God.

. 2Pet 1:17-18 . . For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying: This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. We ourselves heard this voice that came from heaven when we were with him on the sacred mountain.

Can you just imagine how insulted Jesus Christ's Father must feel when people choose Solomon over His son; especially when it's a matter of record that God wasn't well pleased with Solomon?

You know, if I was going to interpret somebody's teachings about the afterlife as figurative language; it wouldn't be Jesus Christ's teachings; no, it would be somebody's else's in order to avoid insulting Christ's Father. Better to err on the safe side.

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Old 03-31-2016, 10:10 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,345 posts, read 21,054,444 times
Reputation: 10025
Oh darn; I'm so disappointed. I was expecting the daily juicy update on how many people are now bound for hell. I've even got the popcorn ready.
 
Old 04-02-2016, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 182,830 times
Reputation: 57
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†. John 20:24-28 . . Now Thomas (called Didymus), one of the twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him: We have seen the Lord! But he said to them: Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe it.

. . . A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said: Peace be with you. Then he said to Thomas: Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.

. . .Thomas said to him: My Lord and my God.

Thomas' response is a pretty interesting look behind the scenes. It reveals that at some time during Christ's association with his apostles, he claimed to be not just a god, rather, the god as per Gen 1:1.

Well; I don't think Thomas accepted Jesus' claim to be the god whom Moses' people know as Yhvh; and in point of fact, I am confident that Thomas never would have accepted his claim to be Yhvh had not Jesus proven it by restoring his crucified body to life as per the prediction recorded at John 2:19-22.

"Jesus answered and said to them: Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. The Jews therefore said: It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days? But He was speaking of the temple of his body. When therefore he was raised from the dead, his disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had spoken."

Grand Central Update: 18 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are a close enough approximation, then something like 1,185,840 new arrivals have passed through the gates of hell since March 15, 2016

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Old 04-02-2016, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Coastal New Jersey
52,002 posts, read 51,140,525 times
Reputation: 61060
Just FYI...

It's Grand Central TERMINAL.
 
Old 04-05-2016, 07:41 AM
 
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 182,830 times
Reputation: 57
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OBJECTION: The Christian hell doesn't make sense that a loving God would torment people in a fiery prison forever and ever.

RESPONSE: The objector's "sense" is produced by a 3-pound lump of flabby organic tissue that can alter your personality with little more than an aneurism or a blow to the head. Just how sensible can a flabby organic sense really be compared to the sense of a divine being with enough intelligence to invent, design, and construct a fully functioning cosmos with all of its forms of life, matter, and energy? Flabby organic senses aren't even a dunce in comparison: they're sub dunces; if even that.

Grand Central Update: 21 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are a close enough approximation, then something like 1,383,480 new arrivals have passed through the gates of hell since March 15, 2016

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Old 04-05-2016, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,345 posts, read 21,054,444 times
Reputation: 10025
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyawehNyoh View Post
Grand Central Update: 21 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are a close enough approximation, then something like 1,383,480 new arrivals have passed through the gates of hell since March 15, 2016
I'll begin by saying that I don't believe you have the slightest clue as to how many people are bound for Hell, and I'll add to that the fact that I find it extremely presumptuous of you to even try to guess. But since you consider yourself such an authority, I'm curious as to how many you believe are now Heaven-bound. 6? 25? 132? What's your "educated" guess?
 
Old 04-07-2016, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 182,830 times
Reputation: 57
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Human life is fragile; so much so that even something as thin as the air can snuff it out.

. Isa 40:6-7 . . All flesh is grass, and all its grace is like the blossom of the field. The grass shall dry out, the blossom shall wilt, for a wind from the Lord has blown upon it; behold the people is grass.

According to a report released on March 25, 2014 by the World Health Organization; air pollution kills, on average, seven million people per annum; and is linked to one in eight deaths (12.5%) world-wide.

Think of it. That percentage represents 902,997,326 deaths linked to air pollution per annum out of a currently estimated 7.3 billion people.

According to a report by the public health agency of the United Nations, an estimated 4.3 million people died in 2012 as a result of indoor air pollution, mostly from cooking inside with coal or wood stoves in developing countries,

Air pollution is so lethal because it exacerbates other conditions like cardio vascular diseases, cancer, and respiratory illnesses. Were people with those conditions permitted to breathe clean air free of hazardous chemicals and toxic particulates, they would live longer.

Grand Central Update: 23 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are a close enough approximation, then something like 1,515,240 new arrivals have passed through the gates of hell since March 15, 2016

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Old 04-07-2016, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,345 posts, read 21,054,444 times
Reputation: 10025
And once again, NyawehNyoh simply pretends not to have seen my post. And all I wanted to know was how many people have died and gone to Heaven. Such a simple request, it would seem to me.
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