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Old 04-15-2016, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 180,219 times
Reputation: 57

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Fiction can be defined as stories about people and events that, though untrue; are plausible; viz: realistic.

Fantasy can be defined as stories about people and events that are not only untrue; but implausible; viz: unrealistic.

For example: a story about a boy like Pinocchio is unrealistic; while a story about a boy with autism is realistic. The difference between Pinocchio and a boy with autism is that the one is compatible with normal reality; while the other is far removed from normal reality.

I have yet to read even one of Jesus Christ's parables that could not possibly be a real-life story. They're all actually quite believable-- farmers sowing seed, women losing coins, sons leaving home, wineskins bursting, tares among the wheat, leavened bread, barren fig trees, the blind leading the blind, et al.

Now; if he had told one that alleged the moon was made of green cheese; we would have good reason to believe that at least that one was fantasy; but none of them are like that. No; there's nothing out of the ordinary in his parables. At best; Christ's parables might qualify as fiction; but never fantasy because none of them are so far removed from the normal round of human experience that they have no basis in reality whatsoever.

Luke 16:19-31 is commonly alleged to be a parable; which of course implies that the story is fiction; and some would even say fantasy. But the parable theory has a fatal flaw. Abraham is not a fictional character: he's a real-life man; held in very high esteem by at least three of the world's prominent religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. And he's also the friend of God (Isa 41:8). I simply cannot believe that Jesus Christ-- a man famous among normal Christians for his honesty and integrity --would say something untrue about a famous real-life man; especially about one of his Father's buddies.

And on top of that, the story quotes Abraham a number of times. Well; if the story is fiction, then Jesus Christ is on record testifying that Abraham said things that he didn't really say; which is a clear violation of the commandment that prohibits bearing false witness.

There is something else to consider.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus didn't originate with Jesus Christ. No, it originated with his Father. In other words: Jesus Christ was micro-managed.

. John 3:34 . . He is sent by God. He speaks God's words

. John 8:26 . . He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of Him.

. John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught me.

. John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

. John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.

So, by implying that Luke 16:19-31 is false, the parable theory insinuates that God is a person of marginal integrity who can't be trusted to tell the truth about people, not even about His own friends, which is ridiculous seeing as how Titus 1:2 and Heb 6:18 testify that God cannot lie.

His impeccable character is what makes that narrative all the more terrifying. Unless somebody can prove, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Christ's Father is a tale-spinner; I pretty much have to assume the narrative was drawn from real-life; and if not drawn from real life, then at least based upon real life.

In other words: there really is an afterlife place of conscious suffering where people endure unbearable anxiety worrying their loved ones are on a road to where they are and there is no way to warn them.

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Old 04-16-2016, 06:47 AM
 
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 180,219 times
Reputation: 57
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At his demise; Christ went to haides. (Acts 2:25-31)

A place he described as "in the heart of the earth" (Matt 12:40)

Christ's corpse wasn't interred in the heart of the earth. In point of fact, his corpse wasn't even interred in the earth's soil. It was laid to rest on the surface of the earth inside a rock tomb.

Acts 2:25-31 refers to Psalm 16:8-11. In that scripture the Hebrew word sheol is used instead of haides; which means that haides and sheol are talking about the same place; viz: they're interchangeable, so that whatever is true about the one, is true about the other; ergo: if haides is in the heart of the earth, then so is sheol.

Jonah went to sheol. (Jonah 2:2)

A place that he described as the roots of the mountains. (Jonah 2:6)

Mountains are not rooted in the tummies of fishes. They're rooted in solid earth.

Acts 2:25-31 speaks of Christ escaping corruption; viz: putrefaction.

The Hebrew word used for putrefaction in Ps 16:8-11 is shachath, which is an important element in the story of Jonah.

. Jonah 2:6 . .Thou hast brought up my life from the pit, O Lord my God.

"pit" is translated from shachath; a common word in the Old Testament for putrefaction; viz: Jonah 2:6 is the language of resurrection; which means that at some time during his nautical adventure, Jonah was deceased.

Was Jonah ever alive in the fish? Yes, (Jonah 2:1). But was he alive the whole three days and three nights? No; because in order for Jonah to be at the roots of the mountains and in the tummy of the fish simultaneously, he and his body had to part company; which is exactly what happened to Christ. While his corpse was reposing on the surface of the earth, he was in its heart.

The story of Jonah is very handy for explaining what was going on with Christ between the time of his death and the time of his resurrection; and it's also handy for standing up to folk who insist that hades and sheol refer only to the grave.

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Old 04-16-2016, 09:21 AM
 
10,179 posts, read 10,541,144 times
Reputation: 3017
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeJones View Post
The problem here is that anyone can claim to speak for God and use his name to suit their cause or agenda. So then you'll point to what it says in the bible, and people will point out to you that most of the bible is not based on actual events or things people really said, never mind that passages can be interpreted different ways or contradict other passages. Being so literal about the bible is just not rational, you can have faith and belief but to take it verbatim will just completely lead you astray

Not to mention Jesus bald-faced contradicts himself when in one breath in John 12:32 he says, "And I, if I be lifted up, will draw all men to myself" and then in the next breath in Matthew 7:13 he warns, "For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and many there be who go in there..."


So which is it? Do all men get drawn to Jesus when he is crucified or do they go down the road to destruction?


It's fun to watch fundamentalist literalists squirm and obfuscate when trying to rationalize this obvious contradiction. My favorite is, "Well, Jesus may draw men to him but they have the free will to refuse to come." Well, if men can so easily resist being drawn to Jesus when he claims to draw them to him then there cannot be that much power in Jesus' crucifixion, can there?


It is obvious that Jesus never made this claim. John is so jimmy-rigged with false words purported to have been spoken by Jesus it is no wonder it sits completely apart from the others. It is crystal clear that John was constructed by its writers to put Jesus before the public as a dying/rising deity along the lines of Attis, Romulus and Mithra--popular pagan gods in competition with the early Christians trying to promote their own savior god. Until John made Jesus a deity the early church leaders weren't having much luck drawing converts. However when they decided to go against Mark's gospel and turn Jesus into a god that's when their fortunes turned. From then on Jesus was to remain being promoted as a god until the Council of Nicaea finalized it in 325 AD.
 
Old 04-17-2016, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 180,219 times
Reputation: 57
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A forgiven sinner is still a sinner and they'll go right on sinning same as before they were forgiven because human nature is intrinsically bad.

. Gen 6:5 . .Yhvh saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.

. Gen 8:21 . . Man's thoughts and actions are bent toward evil from childhood.

. Jer 13:23 . . Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Then may you also do good who are accustomed to do evil.

. Eph 2:3 . .We were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

So; an even bigger problem than getting into heaven, is staying in heaven once you get there; if ever.

Grand Central Update: 34 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are a close enough approximation, then something like 2,239,920 new arrivals have passed through the gates of hell since March 15, 2016

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Old 04-17-2016, 08:04 AM
 
1,925 posts, read 1,326,189 times
Reputation: 3021
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeJones View Post
The problem with the bible is that it's mostly fabricated in the aftermath of the fall of Rome, and not necessarily attributable to the word of Jesus or to actual events. To be so literal and to take out passages as some sort of direct message from God is completely misleading you and no different than Islamic militants quoting the Koran to justify whatever they're doing. You would be better advised to view the bible more as a general guideline than a set of specific messages which it clearly cannot be

No. It's pretty much a fact that the Jewish Torah was passed down orally long, long before the Roman empire fell. To assert otherwise is silly. And the New Testament was compiled from writings during the time of the Romans and during and after Jesus.
 
Old 04-19-2016, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 180,219 times
Reputation: 57
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Of all the comments I've ever composed about hell over the years, this one
is perhaps the most disturbing; so if there are underage children present,
you might want to shoo them out of the room before continuing.

Lorena Bobbitt made news in 1993 by amputating her husband's manhood
with a carving knife while he was asleep. She was later acquitted by reason
of insanity. Lorena's conduct was by no means ground-breaking. Wikipedia
lists a number of such cases involving women mutilating men.

Lorena's conduct was excusable under law because of her mental state; but
there are perfectly rational, sane women out and about who would be
overjoyed with ecstasy to mutilate a man; for example:

On August 01, 2009, four angry women-- Therese A. Ziemann, 47, Wendy L.
Sewell, 44, Michelle M. Belliveau, 43, and Tracy M. Hood-Davis, 30 --were
charged in Stockbridge Wisconsin for luring a married man to a motel room
where they tied him up and blindfolded him, slapped him around for a while;
then removed his knickers and used super glue to attach his private to his
stomach in retaliation for two-timing them. I really have to wonder what in
God's name is going on inside those women's heads.

According to the Beatitudes (Matt 5:3-11) heaven is a place of peace and
kindness. Women whose imaginations are laced with wicked thoughts,
having hearts infected with a brutal desire to injure men, simply can't go
there. They would hate heaven anyway because they couldn't be themselves
there and would never fit in. They would not only be prevented from
assaulting men, but they wouldn't even be permitted the cruel enjoyment of
chafing men with fault-finding, and demeaning comments.

In fire and ice, the first parts of the human body to be effected are the
extremities: ears, nose, toes, fingers, and lips. And in the case of women,
extremities would include their bosom. You twisted, man-hating women out
there in cyberspace should be thinking about that. Your first few moments in
the lake of fire depicted in Rev 19:20, 20:11-15, and 21:8 will be the worst
part. The first thing to go will be your hair, and then extremities. Your
bosom is soft and vulnerable; and will not survive unscathed from total
bodily immersion in molten sulfur; and guess which gender of the human
race will be responsible for your death via third degree burns all over your
entire body; head to foot? A male.

. Acts 17:31 . . For God has set a day for judging the world with justice by
the man He has appointed, and He proved this to everyone by raising him
from the dead.

In the end, it will be the sweet little gentle, turn-the-other-cheek baby Jesus
who casts malicious women into the lake and permanently ruins any chances
they might have had for happiness in the future. For all eternity, condemned
man-haters will grind their teeth with hot tears and white-knuckled fury that
they ultimately lost out on everything because of one lone male's obsessive
control over their lives; and I have no doubt whatsoever they will entertain
years of happy-thoughts dreaming of mutilating Christ should they
perchance ever manage to get their hands on him.

NOTE: There will no doubt be some bent noses over this post, and see it as
denigrating to women (while conveniently ignoring that it's a double
standard to think it's okay to denigrate men). Well, I have to ask, since
when did women become a protected species? Women are not a protected
species. There are just as many, if not more, women dehydrating in hades
as men.

You malicious women out there in cyberspace need to keep something in
mind. At the Great White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:10-15, you are
going to be judged solely on the basis of your life rather than the basis of
your looks. Christ is not going to be influenced by the silkiness of your thighs
nor the size of your bosoms; no, in point of fact; he will be quite determined
to disfigure them.

. Rom 2:9-11. .There will be trouble and distress for every human being
who does evil: For God does not show favoritism.

. Rev 20:15 . . And whosoever's name was not found written in the book of
life was cast into the lake of fire.

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Old 04-19-2016, 01:20 PM
 
20,292 posts, read 15,638,239 times
Reputation: 7403
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyawehNyoh View Post
-
Of all the comments I've ever composed about hell over the years, this one
is perhaps the most disturbing; so if there are underage children present,
you might want to shoo them out of the room before continuing.

Lorena Bobbitt made news in 1993 by amputating her husband's manhood
with a carving knife while he was asleep. She was later acquitted by reason
of insanity. Lorena's conduct was by no means ground-breaking. Wikipedia
lists a number of such cases involving women mutilating men.

Lorena's conduct was excusable under law because of her mental state; but
there are perfectly rational, sane women out and about who would be
overjoyed with ecstasy to mutilate a man; for example:

On August 01, 2009, four angry women-- Therese A. Ziemann, 47, Wendy L.
Sewell, 44, Michelle M. Belliveau, 43, and Tracy M. Hood-Davis, 30 --were
charged in Stockbridge Wisconsin for luring a married man to a motel room
where they tied him up and blindfolded him, slapped him around for a while;
then removed his knickers and used super glue to attach his private to his
stomach in retaliation for two-timing them. I really have to wonder what in
God's name is going on inside those women's heads.

According to the Beatitudes (Matt 5:3-11) heaven is a place of peace and
kindness. Women whose imaginations are laced with wicked thoughts,
having hearts infected with a brutal desire to injure men, simply can't go
there. They would hate heaven anyway because they couldn't be themselves
there and would never fit in. They would not only be prevented from
assaulting men, but they wouldn't even be permitted the cruel enjoyment of
chafing men with fault-finding, and demeaning comments.

In fire and ice, the first parts of the human body to be effected are the
extremities: ears, nose, toes, fingers, and lips. And in the case of women,
extremities would include their bosom. You twisted, man-hating women out
there in cyberspace should be thinking about that. Your first few moments in
the lake of fire depicted in Rev 19:20, 20:11-15, and 21:8 will be the worst
part. The first thing to go will be your hair, and then extremities. Your
bosom is soft and vulnerable; and will not survive unscathed from total
bodily immersion in molten sulfur; and guess which gender of the human
race will be responsible for your death via third degree burns all over your
entire body; head to foot? A male.

. Acts 17:31 . . For God has set a day for judging the world with justice by
the man He has appointed, and He proved this to everyone by raising him
from the dead.

In the end, it will be the sweet little gentle, turn-the-other-cheek baby Jesus
who casts malicious women into the lake and permanently ruins any chances
they might have had for happiness in the future. For all eternity, condemned
man-haters will grind their teeth with hot tears and white-knuckled fury that
they ultimately lost out on everything because of one lone male's obsessive
control over their lives; and I have no doubt whatsoever they will entertain
years of happy-thoughts dreaming of mutilating Christ should they
perchance ever manage to get their hands on him.

NOTE: There will no doubt be some bent noses over this post, and see it as
denigrating to women (while conveniently ignoring that it's a double
standard to think it's okay to denigrate men). Well, I have to ask, since
when did women become a protected species? Women are not a protected
species. There are just as many, if not more, women dehydrating in hades
as men.

You malicious women out there in cyberspace need to keep something in
mind. At the Great White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:10-15, you are
going to be judged solely on the basis of your life rather than the basis of
your looks. Christ is not going to be influenced by the silkiness of your thighs
nor the size of your bosoms; no, in point of fact; he will be quite determined
to disfigure them.

. Rom 2:9-11. .There will be trouble and distress for every human being
who does evil: For God does not show favoritism.

. Rev 20:15 . . And whosoever's name was not found written in the book of
life was cast into the lake of fire.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
If you're trying to make Christians in general, or just yourself in particular, look bad, you're doing a good job of it.
 
Old 04-19-2016, 01:36 PM
 
Location: NW Indiana
39,358 posts, read 14,432,300 times
Reputation: 99443
Thread closed pending assigned moderator's review.
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