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Old 03-16-2016, 04:33 PM
 
37,517 posts, read 25,243,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Well I hope you enjoy your immortal toilet and immortal toilet paper among other immortal physical things. I, on the other hand, look forward to the freedom of a Spiritual body.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
You are equating "mortal" with "physical." They are not the same thing, and I never said I looked forward to having a "mortal" body again.
I'm afraid you're going to be disappointed, Mystic, but you'll get used to it. The first time you hold someone you love in your arms again, you'll actually be happy that you were wrong.
Perhaps. But I suspect the merging of Spirits directly with my loved ones will be far more satisfactory than any physical hug.

 
Old 03-16-2016, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 180,472 times
Reputation: 57
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†. 1Cor 15:44 . . It is sown a natural body, it is raised up a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body."

Watch as I revise that passage because the difference is significant.

"It is sown a natural body, it is raised up a spirit body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spirit body."

No; it doesn't say spirit body but nevertheless that's what some people have decided it ought to say.

The Greek word translated "spiritual" is ambiguous. It doesn't necessarily refer to spirit. Below is a list of spiritual things that bear absolutely no resemblance whatsoever to the body chemistry of an angel or a demon.

Spiritual gifts (Rom 1:11)
Spiritual law (Rom 7:14)
Spiritual things (Rom 15:27)
Spiritual people (1Cor 2:15)
Spiritual nourishment (1Cor 10:3)
Spiritual water (1Cor 10:4)
Spiritual rock (1Cor 10:4)
Spiritual blessings (Eph 1:3)
Spiritual music (Eph 5:19)
Spiritual understanding (Col 1:9)
Spiritual housing (1Pet 2:5)
Spiritual sacrifices (1Pet 2:5)

I sincerely believe that the spiritual body spoken of at 1Cor 15:44 is in no way composed of spirit. Of what material it is composed I don't know; but I do know at least four things about it.

1• The spiritual body is patterned after Christ's body.

†. Phil 3:20-21 . .Our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

2• The spiritual body is capable of dining upon ordinary foods.

†. Luke 22:15-16 . . I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. For I tell you: I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.

3• The spiritual body is capable of imbibing ordinary beverages.

†. Matt 26:29 . . I tell you: I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it anew with you in my Father's kingdom.

4• The spiritual body is capable of being seen by the naked eye.

†. Acts 1:11 . . Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched him go into heaven.

†. Rev 1:7 . . Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him

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Old 03-16-2016, 04:59 PM
 
589 posts, read 229,073 times
Reputation: 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyawehNyoh View Post
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According to Jesus Christ's testimony as a credible expert witness in all matters pertaining to the afterlife; most of the world's responsible souls haven't been making it to safety when they cross over to the other side.

. Luke 13:22-24 . . And he went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. Then said one unto him, master, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them: Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

. Matt 7:13-14 . . Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

. Matt 22:14 . . For many are called, but few are chosen.

Webster's defines "many" as consisting of, or amounting to, a large but indefinite number; while "few" is defined as consisting of, or amounting to, only a small number; viz: relative to many then, few is the lesser. Bear with me while I flesh this out.

According to the US Census Bureau: as of Mar 15, 2016 @ 11:28 am New York Time, the resident population in the United States was approximately 323,171,316 with a death rate of approximately one every 11 seconds; which translates to an average of 7,855 American deaths of all ages, races, and genders during just one 24-hour calendar day.

According to 2009 US Census data; roughly 27.3% of America's daily deaths are under the age of 19, which would indicate that approximately 5,710 of the current daily death rate of 7,855 per 24 hours are adults.

Giving the "many" the benefit of the doubt by limiting their maximum percentage to 51%, would indicate a minimum of 2,912 American adults transferring to perdition every day: which translates to roughly 121 per hour.

That's a very conservative estimate as Christ didn't really specify exact percentages to represent the quantities of "few" and "many". But just think: by the time CBS completes its half hour evening news report, a bare-bones minimum of 60 Americans become new arrivals in the fiery sector of the netherworld.

Using the ratio of 2,912 condemned souls per 323,171,316 population: computing the number of condemned souls worldwide from a currently estimated global population of 7,311,309,942 people, would suggest something like 65,880 new arrivals in the fiery sector of the netherworld every 24 hours; which translates to approximately 2,745 souls every sixty minutes on the clock.

That rate would fill the 51,800 seats of the new Yankee Stadium to capacity in roughly 18 hours and 52 minutes. In other words: if the world's daily number of condemned souls started filing into the stadium at 06:00 am this morning, then by 12:52 pm tonight, the stadium would be full to capacity.

Christmas and New Year are even worse. A study done of 26 years of death certificates shows that coronary fatalities are, on average, 11.9% higher on those days than any other days of the year; with non-heart deaths spiking to 12.2% higher.

Traditional Christianity's hell never closes; no, not at all: it's open for business 24/7/365 nonstop and indifferent to global warming, Wall Street crashes, massive layoffs, outsourcing, high school shootings, terrorism, tsunamis, earthquakes, nuclear meltdowns, air, water, and soil pollution, freeway pile-ups, brown-outs, threatened species, gasoline prices, student debt, GMO, trade deficits, protests, Federal debt, factory recalls, overpopulation, desertification, genocides, revolutions, civil wars, acid rain, road rage, oil spills, conscious decoupling, ISIS, LGBT marriage, Obamacare, blood diamonds, fracking, twerking, and/or Donald Trump's lead in the polls.

If traditional Christianity's perception of Jesus Christ and the hereafter is correct; then it's apparent that souls never stop cascading into the abyss in an endless procession like the unbelievable millions of poultry broilers passing annually through Tyson chicken-processing plants on their way to Wendy's, McDonalds, Carl's Junior, Jack in the Box, Burger King, In'n'Out Burger, KFC, A&W, Arby's, Dairy Queen, Taco Bell, et al; and to supermarkets and restaurants all over the USA and wherever else Tyson vends its meats. The slaughtering and the butchering never stop.

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Whos saying they cross over? who knows where they go. Not to hell though.
 
Old 03-16-2016, 05:01 PM
 
589 posts, read 229,073 times
Reputation: 36
God only needs to speak a few words and his message gets through, he doesn't need speeches.
 
Old 03-16-2016, 05:04 PM
 
589 posts, read 229,073 times
Reputation: 36
no human is in hell right now and hell isn't a good or friendly place. be strong in God.
 
Old 03-16-2016, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,278 posts, read 20,883,681 times
Reputation: 9959
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Perhaps. But I suspect the merging of Spirits directly with my loved ones will be far more satisfactory than any physical hug.
The merging of spirits? Do you mean that you will lose your own identity? Besides, the two are not mutually exclusive. You could have a physical (though immortal) body and have a complete unity in spirit with those you love.
 
Old 03-16-2016, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,278 posts, read 20,883,681 times
Reputation: 9959
Maybe it would be useful for us (not just Mystic and me, but anyone who wants to weigh in on the subject) to explain what we believe a "spiritual body" to be.
 
Old 03-16-2016, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 180,472 times
Reputation: 57
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Fiction can be defined as stories about people and events that, though untrue; are plausible; viz: realistic.

Fantasy can be defined as stories about people and events that are not only untrue; but implausible; viz: unrealistic.

For example: a story about a boy like Pinocchio is unrealistic; while a story about a boy with autism is realistic. The difference between Pinocchio and a boy with autism is that the one is compatible with normal reality; while the other is far removed from normal reality.

I have yet to read even one of Jesus Christ's parables that could not possibly be a real-life story. They're all actually quite believable-- farmers sowing seed, women losing coins, sons leaving home, wineskins bursting, tares among the wheat, leavened bread, barren fig trees, the blind leading the blind, et al.

Now; if he had told one that alleged the moon was made of green cheese; we would have good reason to believe that at least that one was fantasy; but none of them are like that. At best; Christ's parables might qualify as fiction; but never fantasy because none of them are so far removed from normal reality that there is no possible chance of it ever being true.

Luke 16:19-31 is commonly alleged to be a parable; which of course implies that the story is fiction; and some would even say fantasy. But the parable theory has a fatal flaw.

Abraham is neither fiction nor fantasy: he's a real life man; held in very high esteem by at least three of the world's prominent religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.

Abraham is also the friend of God (2Chrn 20:27, Isa 41:8). I simply cannot believe that Jesus Christ-- a man famous among normal Christians for his honesty and integrity --would say something untrue about a famous real-life man; especially one of his Father's buddies.

And on top of that, the story quotes Abraham a number of times. Well; if the story is fiction, then Jesus Christ is on record testifying that Abraham said things that he didn't really say; which is a clear violation of the commandment that prohibits bearing false witness.

There is something else to consider.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus didn't originate with Jesus Christ. No, it originated with his Father. In other words: Jesus Christ was micro-managed.

†. John 3:34 . . He is sent by God. He speaks God's words

†. John 8:26 . . He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of Him.

†. John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught me.

†. John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, He gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

†. John 14:24 . .The word which you hear is not mine, but the Father's who sent me.

So, by implying that Luke 16:19-31 is false, the parable theory insinuates that God is a person of marginal integrity who can't be trusted to tell the truth about people, not even about His own friends, which is ridiculous seeing as how Titus 1:2 and Heb 6:18 testify that God cannot lie.

NOTE: Luke 16:27 reveals that people in the rich man's situation suffer anxiety worrying about their relatives.

Can you just imagine the shock, the horror, and the terror that kicks disbelievers in the guts when they find themselves in the same situation? Well; that's all they need to instantly realize that traditional Christianity has been right about hell all along and humanistic sophistry is a Judas goat.

But that's not the worst of it. Just think of all the disbelieving parents who have actually trained their own children to follow mom and dad down there. How do people bear the torment of something like that on their conscience?

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Last edited by NyawehNyoh; 03-16-2016 at 05:51 PM..
 
Old 03-16-2016, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 180,472 times
Reputation: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Maybe it would be useful for us (not just Mystic and me, but anyone who wants to weigh in on the subject) to explain what we believe a "spiritual body" to be.
See post #32

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Old 03-16-2016, 06:10 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,278 posts, read 20,883,681 times
Reputation: 9959
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyawehNyoh View Post
See post #32

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Sorry, I evidently missed that. I would have to say that I essentially agree with your definition. I agree, in particular, that "a spirit body" does not mean that the body is without physical substance. Something can be both spiritual and corporeal. Jesus Christ himself is evidence of that.

Last edited by Katzpur; 03-16-2016 at 06:38 PM..
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