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Old 03-20-2016, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 180,837 times
Reputation: 57

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Judas goats are trained for use in slaughterhouses and herd control. In stockyards, they lead sheep to slaughter; and are also used to lead other animals to specific pens and on to trucks. The term is a reference to the biblical traitor Judas Iscariot.

The phrase has also been used to describe goats utilized to locate feral goats targeted for eradication. They're usually outfitted with a transmitter, painted in red and then released. The goats then locate the remaining herds of feral goats, allowing hunters with tracking devices to find and exterminate them. The red paint marks the goat with the transmitter so the hunters know which one not to shoot.

You know what can be even worse than going to hell? Your own children following you there: and they trusted you.

Here's a sort of cute story I heard once. I don't know if it's true but it sure is pertinent.

A boozing farmer went out to his barn in the dead of winter's night after a snowfall to sneak a pull from his liquor bottle. Just as he got to the barn door he heard something behind him. Turning, the farmer recognized his little boy coming towards him. In amazement he asked the little guy how he ever managed to find his way out to the barn in the dark. His son replied: It was easy; I walked in your footsteps.

Can you just imagine the anguish that parents feel in the netherworld knowing that they inadvertently raised their children in a philosophy that led them down the road to hell and all the while sincerely believing themselves doing the right thing? In other words: they actually Judas-goated their children to follow mom and dad down there. How do parents in hell cope with something like that on their conscience?

For some families, the only thing they have to look forward to in the afterlife is a sad reunion in fire and despair; for example:

. Luke 16:27-29 . . Then he said: I beg you therefore, father [Abraham] that you would send [Lazarus] to my father's house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.

That poor man had no way to contact his surviving kin and let them know his whereabouts; but his biggest fear was that he knew them all well enough to know that all five were coming down where he was-- there was nothing he could do to prevent it. Imagine that man's sorrow had those five been his children.

BTW: The man's five brothers have long since joined him.

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Old 03-21-2016, 07:49 AM
 
787 posts, read 297,673 times
Reputation: 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlakeJones View Post
The problem with the bible is that it's mostly fabricated in the aftermath of the fall of Rome, and not necessarily attributable to the word of Jesus or to actual events. To be so literal and to take out passages as some sort of direct message from God is completely misleading you and no different than Islamic militants quoting the Koran to justify whatever they're doing. You would be better advised to view the bible more as a general guideline than a set of specific messages which it clearly cannot be
You are free to believe a lie if you so choose, but be advised that this is indeed what is happening in your case.

LIE #1 Fabrication of the Bible following the fall of Rome

The Bible begins with the five books of Moses, written thousands of years before the birth of anyone recorded in the Gospels or Epistles. It was, therefore, not written following the fall of Rome. Rome did not exist when the Bible's words began to be recorded. That's lie #1

LIE #2 Dates of Rome and the Bible

According to many scholars of good repute integrity and character the books of the New Testament were written within thirty years or less of the time when they actually took place.

In 284AD, the Roman Empire was divided into two parts - east and west. The capital of the eastern Roman Empire was Byzantium, later renamed Constantinople and again renamed Istanbul. The capital of the western Roman Empire remained Rome until its fall to the Visigoths in 464AD or thereabouts. But the empire did not collapse when Rome fell. It continued as Constantinople well into and beyond the end of the Middle Ages, which began with the fall of Rome and ended with the fall of Constantinople and capture by Ottoman Sultan Mehmet II in 1453. The Muslim Empire was therefore directly responsible for the discovery of the Americas less than forty years later.

Therefore whether you clock the fall of the Roman Empire either in 464AD or 1453AD your assumption that Christian scripture was written after the fall of the Empire is entirely incorrect. That's lie #2.

LIE #3 Fabrication of the life and times of Jesus Christ.

The life, ministry, miracles death and resurrection of Jesus are matters of historic fact not fabrications.

Apart from the record of Jesus in the Bible there are numerous reports in secular history. In fact, there are more accounts of Jesus by secular historians than of Julius Caesar (a famous Roman general and emperor), who had nothing to gain by reporting unique activity in the Roman province of Judea. If the Bible account of Christ did not exist we would have the secular record of what happened and what was said. That's lie #3.

LIE #4 The Bible is no different than the Qur'an

The Bible claims to be based upon truth. Islam and the Qur'an itself are based upon lies. Islamic theologians and the Qur'an itself admit it. In fact, Islam is the ONLY religion on the planet and in all history that condones lying to benefit the religion and profit in business. Read the Muslim words if you don't believe mine;

"Believers when in a weakened stage in a non-Muslim country should forgive and be patient with People of the Book when they insult Allah and his prophet by any means. Believers should lie to People of the Book to protect their lives and their religion."
- Ibn Taymiyah "THE SWORD ON THE NECK OF THE ACCUSER OF MUHAMMAD

Anyone who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters unbelief, except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in faith - but such as open their breast to unbelief, on them is wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful penalty.
- Qur'an Surah 16:106

"Know this that lying is not sin by itself, but if it brings harm to you it could be ugly. However, you can lie if that will keep you from evil or if it will result in prosperity."
- Imam Al-Ghazali (Muslim theologian and philosopher)

"The principle of sanctioning lying for the cause of Islam bears grave implications in matters relating to the spread of the religion of Islam in the West. Muslim activists employ deceptive tactics in their attempts to polish Islam's image and make it more attractive to prospective converts."
- Abdullan Al-Araby (Muslim theologian, philosopher and leader)

There are 2 formal doctrines of religious deception:
taqiyya - (concealment) A muslim may lie about what they believe, denying aspects of their faith that are offensive [to others].
[Qur'an 16:106]

kitman - (mental reservation, the telling of partial truth with intention to deceive or mislead)
"the scholars agreed that if a person is forced into disbelief, it is permissible for him to either go along with them in the interests of self-preservation, or to refuse." - Ibn Kathir

The Bible is not the same as the Qur'an. That's lie #4

LIE #5 The Bible is fabrication

The Bible is the inspired Word of God. It was written over a period of several thousand years by approximately forty different authors all of whom were directed by the spirit of God to write the words. Despite this disparity in culture and languages, the Bible is consistent with its own theme, which is the story of the fall and redemption of man. The entire story spans a period of about six thousand years. When you hold a copy of the Bible in your hands you are holding a real miracle. Apart from the hand of God in its creation and continuation, there is no logical reason why it should exist at all.

The Bible is NOT a work on animal or plant husbandry. It isn't a book on astronomy, tectonic plate movement, prehistoric animal development or the geological record. It doesn't claim to be at all. If you want a book on those subjects, I recommend the appropriate section in your local public or university library.

The Bible is about the fall and redemption of man, nothing less and nothing more. Archeology has proven that everything in the ancient record of the Bible is accurate regarding the times and events affecting the Hebrew people. The Bible is not a fabrication. That's lie #5

Shall I go on and on to document other lies of which the Bible has been accused, I'd be here all day long. It shouldn't be necessary for the seeker of truth, however. Study of the Bible is sufficient for seeking and knowing what God expects of all men and how men can live together in peace. Because it's precepts have been abandoned in the modern age, mankind has had to suffer in its own poisons and lies.

It's not God's fault. It's ours. It is the nature of human life in a fallen state. We hate God. All of us. Nobody wants to do the right thing. We all want to do what we think is best for us. Redemption means restoring the human nature to something that wants to live God's way. It means reestablishing a real and honest relationship with God - He who is called Adonai in the Hebrew tongue.

Jesus saves. Still does. Seek Him while you still can.

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Last edited by Choir Loft; 03-21-2016 at 08:02 AM..
 
Old 03-21-2016, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 180,837 times
Reputation: 57
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Grand Central Update: 6 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the figures in post #1 are a close enough approximation, then something like 395,280 new arrivals have passed through the gates of hell since March 15, 2016

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Old 03-21-2016, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 180,837 times
Reputation: 57
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At some time during Jonah's three-day nautical adventure, he went to a place described as the roots of the mountains (Jonah 2:6). Well; the roots of the mountains aren't situated in the tummy of a fish; they're embedded in the earth. Jesus Christ said the same thing about his experience.

. Mtt 12:40 . . For just as Jonah was in the belly of the huge fish three days and three nights, so the Son of man will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

When you think about it, Christ's corpse was never in the heart of the earth. It wasn't even in the earth's soil. It was on the surface of the earth in a rock tomb. So in order for Christ to be on the surface of the earth and in its heart at the same time, he and his body had to go their separate ways.

Same with Jonah. In order for Jonah to be in a fish's tummy and down at the roots of the mountains at the same time, he and his body had to go their separate ways; which of course is not difficult for traditional Christians seeing as how they believe it's possible for a human to continue existing beyond the demise of their body.

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Old 03-21-2016, 10:36 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,280 posts, read 20,922,051 times
Reputation: 9966
Well, there's one thing to be said about Grand Central Station. People arrive there daily and they also leave. They don't have to be bound for eternal torment just for making a stop there to transfer trains.
 
Old 03-21-2016, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 180,837 times
Reputation: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Well, there's one thing to be said about Grand Central Station. People arrive there daily and they also leave. They don't have to be bound for eternal torment just for making a stop there to transfer trains.
Hell's Grand Central Station has many trains arriving, but only one leaving; which is why I named it Hell's grand central; viz: the only "transfer" is the one going down; way down.

To my knowledge there is only one mention of the dead getting out of hell, and that's Rev 20:13 where its prisoners are resurrected to face justice at the Great White Throne event; after which their resurrected bodies will be terminated by a mode of death akin to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten iron.

Were I one of the dead brought up to face justice, and knew what was coming; I would get laid as quickly as possible with the prettiest girl I could find because that will be the lost's final opportunity for some R&R. But then again, they just might be brought up in body chains and armed guards; thus thwarting their hopes for one last fling.

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Last edited by NyawehNyoh; 03-21-2016 at 12:31 PM..
 
Old 03-21-2016, 12:07 PM
 
4,851 posts, read 1,468,913 times
Reputation: 1571
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyawehNyoh View Post
Hell's Grand Central Station has many trains arriving, but only one leaving; which is why I named it Hell's grand central; viz: the only "transfer" is the one going down; way down.

To my knowledge there is only one mention of the lost getting out of hell, and that's Rev 20:13 where its prisoners are resurrected to face justice at the Great White Throne event; after which their resurrected bodies will be terminated by a mode of death akin to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten iron.

Were I one of the lost brought up to face justice, and knew what was coming; I would get laid as quickly as possible with the prettiest girl I could find because that will be their final opportunity for that sort of thing.

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It really must be sad to have this view of God
 
Old 03-21-2016, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Idaho
2,482 posts, read 2,027,322 times
Reputation: 5107
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Another skeptic with an opinion.
And the problem is? If you faith is so strong, you would welcome the skeptics!

Which brings me to the age old question, why are religious people so afraid of dying?
 
Old 03-21-2016, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 180,837 times
Reputation: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallflash View Post
It really must be sad to have this view of God
What's really sad is the number of people down thru the centuries who have gone to their deaths not knowing what to expect. If only you could appreciate how fortunate you are to find this thread.

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Old 03-21-2016, 01:07 PM
 
20,323 posts, read 15,678,979 times
Reputation: 7441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Another skeptic with an opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by f5fstop View Post
And the problem is? If you faith is so strong, you would welcome the skeptics!
There is a difference between an 'honest' skeptic who is willing to be objective and is open to changing his views in light of new information, and a 'dishonest' skeptic who absolutely refuses to be objective.

Now, I don't know into which category the person I addressed my reply to fits, but this forum is full of the dishonest category.
Quote:
Which brings me to the age old question, why are religious people so afraid of dying?
Speaking for myself, I'm not afraid of dying. For those who have believed in Christ Jesus, to be absent from the body is to be at home with the Lord.
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