U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
Old 04-06-2016, 07:41 AM
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 180,389 times
Reputation: 57


Who/What The Firstborn Is

†. Col 1:15 . . He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.

Christ wasn't even the one born first in the human family let alone the entire creation so what gives here?

Well; firstborn is just as much a rank as it is a birth order; and though the latter is set in biological concrete; the title, and it's advantages, are transferable to a younger sibling; e.g. from Esau to Jacob (Gen 25:23) from Reuben to Joseph (Gen 49:3-4, 1Chr 5:1) and from Manasseh to Ephraim (Gen 48:13-14). This situation can lead to some interesting ramifications; for example:

†. Matt 22:41-46 . . Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question; saying: What do you think about the Christ, whose son is He? They said to Him: The son of David. He said to them: Then how does David in the Spirit call Him "Lord" saying: The Lord said to my Lord: Sit at My right hand until I put thine enemies beneath thy feet. If David then calls Him "Lord" how is He his son?

Jesus referenced Psalm 110:1, where there are two distinct Hebrew words for "lord". The first is yhvh, a name reserved exclusively for God. The second is 'adown, which is a very common word in the Old Testament used to simply indicate a superior. Sarah labeled Abraham her 'adown (Gen 18:12) Rachel addressed her dad by 'adown (Gen 31:5) and Jacob addressed his brother Esau by 'adown (Gen 33:8).

So then; Psalm 110:1 could be translated like this:

"Yhvh said unto my superior: Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."

Anybody who knew the Old Testament in Jesus' day knew good and well from Ps 89:27 that David has no superiors but God because he holds the rank of God's firstborn; viz: no king that you might name is David's superior other than Yhvh: the king of all kings.

So Psalm 110:1 suggests that David's rank-- and subsequently its advantages --as God's firstborn has been transferred to another man; and seeing as how Jesus' opponents agreed that the other man is David's son, then the position has been transferred not to one of David's siblings; but to one of his own posterity; so that now David has to bow and scrape to one of his own grandchildren, which up to that time was not only unheard of; but just wasn't done.

†. Matt 22:46 . . And no one was able to answer him a word

Well; no surprise there. This was something not only strange to their Jewish way of thinking; but entirely new, yet there it was in black and white in their own scriptures; and they had somehow failed to catch its significance until Jesus drew their attention to it.

Now; here's something else that I'm 110% positive crossed the minds of Jesus' learned opposition. To their way of thinking, David's position as God's firstborn as per Ps 89:27 is irrevocable. Well; seeing as how there is no intermediate rank sandwiched in between the firstborn position and the paterfamilias position, that means David's son, about whom he spoke in Ps 110:1, is equal in rank to God; which is a blasphemous suggestion to say the least. (chuckle) Those poor know-it-all Pharisees were utterly baffled beyond words.

"Your throne O God is forever and ever; a scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness, and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of joy more than your fellows." (Ps 45:6-7)

If that passage has been translated correctly, it says one of two things. Either God is speaking to Himself, or He is speaking to a king of the Davidic dynasty that has been promoted to a level of dignity and authority equal to His own; which of course outranks David by a pretty large amount; and in point of fact: is superior to the entire cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --no contest.


Last edited by NyawehNyoh; 04-06-2016 at 08:05 AM..

Old 04-06-2016, 09:42 AM
9,169 posts, read 2,780,680 times
Reputation: 658
Most of this is true, but the first line point. The Seed WAS the firstborn of all creation, just as it says, because all things were made BY HIM, for Him and through Him and there was not anything made (creation, natural kingdom) that was not made through Him.

And HE was and is the image of the INVISIBLE G-d, because all seeds bear fruit after their own kind and image. G-d is a Spirit, and His Seed is also a Spirit. The flesh profiteth nothing, not even the flesh of Yeshua, which was the "husk" the Seed came in.

Which is why He was not so favorably disposed to it, once He arose, He took other forms and so was seen as the gardener and unrecognized by the two on the road until their HEARTS BURNED within them when He spoke. Peace
Old 04-07-2016, 12:05 AM
37,508 posts, read 25,238,629 times
Reputation: 5857
Default Common Curiosities

This entire thread smacks of plagiarism or copyright infringement. A Google search of the passages should resolve that one way or the other.
Old 04-07-2016, 07:22 AM
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 180,389 times
Reputation: 57
David's Little Boy

Long story short: David breached the covenant that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy by committing the capital crimes of premeditated murder and adultery (2Sam 11:1-2Sam 12:23). As bad as those two breaches are; what really rattled heaven's cage was that David's conduct was an embarrassment.

†. 2Sam 12:14a . . Because by this deed you have given occasion to the enemies of The Lord to blaspheme,

What might the nature of that blasphemy be? Well behavior like David's causes the world to question the wisdom of Yhvh's choice of a people for His name. That's a very common form of blaspheme: it goes on all the time. (e.g. Isa 62:5, Rom 2:24)

†. 2Sam 12:14b-18 . . the child also that is born to you shall surely die . . .The Lord struck the child that Uriah's widow bore to David, so that he was very sick . . .Then it happened on the seventh day that the child died.

How was that fair? Well; it wasn't meant to be fair to the boy; it was meant to be fair to David. His little boy was just collateral damage.

†. Ex 34:6-7 . . Then Yhvh passed by in front of Moses and proclaimed: Yhvh, Yhvh God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in loving-kindness and truth; who keeps loving-kindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished: visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations.

It is apparently God's prerogative to get back at people by going after their posterity and/or the people they govern.

There's a horrific example of collateral damage located at Num 16:25-34. Another is the Flood. No doubt quite a few underage children drowned in that event due to their parents' wickedness. The same happened to the children in Sodom and Gomorrah, and Ham's punishment for humiliating Noah was a curse upon his son Canaan, and during Moses' face-off with Pharaoh, God moved against the man's firstborn son along with all those of his subjects.

The grand-daddy of all collateral damages is everybody has to die because the human race's progenitor disobeyed God in the very beginning. (Rom 5:12-18)

Interesting isn't it? There are times when Heaven's anger seems to come out of the blue; but if truth be known; sometimes it actually comes out of the past; for example:

†. 2Sam 21:1 . . Now there was a famine in the days of David for three years, year after year; and David sought the presence of the Lord. And the Lord said: It is for Saul and his bloody house, because he put the Gibeonites to death.

Joshua agreed to a non-aggression pact with the Gibeonites during the conquest of Canaan (Josh 9:3-16). Saul, when king, dishonored the pact. He apparently got away with it; but not his countrymen, no; God slammed them for what Saul did; and that posthumously.

Moral of the story: The sins of today, jeopardize the lives of tomorrow; and sometimes those lives are very large in number.

Old 04-08-2016, 07:38 AM
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 180,389 times
Reputation: 57
The Meaning Of "Under The Law"

†. Rom 6:14 . . For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law, but under grace.

NOTE: The law's mastery is played out in its power to control people's destiny. For example when somebody commits grand theft, criminal justice puts the thief behind bars regardless of how he might feel about it.

The "law" in question is the covenanted law that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. The important thing to note about the agreement is that it's a legally binding contract. So then the term "under the law" refers to contractual obligations.

Seeing as how Christ's followers are not contracted with God to comply with the covenant, then neither is God contractually obligated to penalize Christ's followers for breaching it.

God has to lower the boom on Yhvh's people with any and/or all of the curses listed at Lev 26:3-38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:1-69 for breaching the covenant, but He doesn't have to lower the boom on Christ's followers with those curses because He isn't contracted with them to do so. This is a very important aspect of Christianity.

In a nutshell: where there is no contract, there is no contract to breach; and where there is no law, there is no law to break; and where there is no law to break, there are no indictments. (Rom 4:15, Rom 5:13)

This principle applies in a really big way to people who have undergone the baptism described at Rom 6:3-11 because it essentially means that they cannot be sent to hell for breaking the Ten Commandments, or any of the other covenanted commandments either for that matter.

Old 04-09-2016, 09:59 AM
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 180,389 times
Reputation: 57
Who/What The Schoolmaster Is

†. Gal 3:24 . .The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

The koiné Greek word for "schoolmaster" is paidagogos (pahee-dag-o-gos') which defines not a headmaster, nor a teacher, nor a tutor. It essentially defines a servant whose responsibility it was to take their master's children to school. In other words: a sort of chaperone who made sure the kids got there; even if the servant had to take them by the hand to do it.

The "law" to which the writer refers is the covenant that Yhvh's people agreed upon with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. Although Gentiles aren't contracted with God to comply with the covenant, it's useful for revealing God's feelings about certain kinds of behavior; for example:

†. Lev 19:11 . . You shall not deal falsely, nor lie to one another.

Once a Gentile is made aware that their maker disapproves of dishonesty, henceforth they get in hot water every time they lie because God is lenient with uninformed liars but has little patience with scofflaws.

†. Num 15:30-31 . .The person, be he citizen or stranger, who acts defiantly reviles the Lord; that person shall be cut off from among his people. Because he has spurned the word of the Lord and violated His commandment, that person shall be cut off— he bears his guilt.

So; what might "cut off" amount to? Well; for one: no liar will be allowed entrance to the holy city.

†. Rev 21:27 . . No one who practices lying shall ever come into it

†. Rev 22:14-15 . . Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are whoever loves and practices a lie.

The law's task then; is to instill fear in dishonesty, and make liars aware that if they opt to take their chances, and stand before God to be judged on their own merits; that they haven't the slightest, slimmest possibility of coming away unscathed. It's a 110% forgone conclusion that they will come away dead.

†. Rev 21:8 . . All liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

I am willing to bet that nobody can get through the day without dishonesty— we need dishonesty, we have to have dishonesty or interactions with our friends, with strangers, with associates, with superiors and loved ones would be very strained indeed. It is just humanly impossible to be honest all the time. I would even go so far as to say that in the world in which we live; it's not smart to be 110% honest all the time; viz: "Honesty is the best policy" just isn't true; not in the world we live in anyway; which is a bit of a catch-22.

Q: Why does everyone find it so easy to lie?

A: Because human beings are natural-born liars.

†. Ps 58:3 . . The wicked are estranged from the womb; these who speak lies go astray from birth.

That's an interesting statement. It's saying— in so many words —that although infants are too young to lie; they are born with a proclivity to lie, and that's what makes them wicked because that proclivity to lie is in them and will eventually have its way with them.

Q: How are people supposed to obey that commandment seeing as how we're all natural-born liars?

A: Nobody can, it's impossible.

†. Jer 13:23 . . Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? Then you also can do good who are accustomed to doing evil.

Well; the Schoolmaster's goal is not just to frighten liars and make them nervous; but also to show them the God-given way out of their predicament.

†. Gal 3:24 . .The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

The cross' first and foremost purpose was to satisfy justice for liars. That right there should make liars breathe a little easier in respect to the sum of all fears.

†. 1John 2:1-2 . . If anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; and he himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

†. Isa 53:6 . . All of us like sheep have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; but the Lord has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on him.

Old 04-10-2016, 09:02 AM
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 180,389 times
Reputation: 57
The Flesh

†. Rom 8:13 . . For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

The koiné Greek word for flesh is sarx (sarx); which essentially indicates the meaty parts of either man or beast. The meat of the human body would of course include the 3-pound lump of flabby organic tissue housed within a man's bony little skull sufficing for a mind; and it's not all that difficult to tamper with a brain and make its owner quite mindless.

The meaty parts of the human body are the source of a human being's human nature and it isn't all that difficult to define. Webster's says its (1) the ways of thinking, feeling, and acting that are common to most people, and (2) the nature of humans; especially the fundamental dispositions and traits of humans.

In a nutshell then: the flesh, as per Rom 8:13, can be concisely defined as that which comes natural to an organic species of life

Ironically, when God finished assembling the cosmos with its various forms of life, matter, and energy; He pronounced it all not just good; but "very" good. In other words, God was satisfied that the human body came out just exactly as He designed it to come out; but it didn't stay that way.

†. Rom 7:18 . . I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me

When people do something contrary to their own better judgment; it's very common to hear them say "I don't know what came over me". Well; the thing that came over them was their flesh doing what comes natural.

Old 04-10-2016, 09:30 AM
Location: Texas
1,279 posts, read 1,148,004 times
Reputation: 1333
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
I don't think it's a person, it's just a computer typing out stuff. It looks like cut and paste and if you say something, it's not even acknowledged.


It's cut and paste from that site.
Old 04-10-2016, 10:05 AM
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 180,389 times
Reputation: 57
Originally Posted by cowdog View Post
Questions It's cut and paste from that site.
When you get to "that site" click on the HOME link up in the top left corner of the page.

That will take you to the home page titled: Sunday School For Born Again Christians.

Go down that page about half way till you see an email link titled:

Cliff and Joanne Weber
Contact: cfbac att.net

Send us an email and if we don't reply then you'll know I've been plagiarizing.

"You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor." (Ex 20:16)

Old 04-11-2016, 09:10 AM
Location: Oregon
425 posts, read 180,389 times
Reputation: 57
Eternal Life

Eternal life is often mistaken for immortality. The two are not the same.

Immortality is a physical kind of life that has to do with a superhuman body impervious to age, death, and putrefaction.

Eternal life, on the other hand, isn't a physical kind of life; it's a spirit kind of life; which is why it's possible for people to obtain eternal life before they obtain immortality.

For example: Christ had eternal life when he was here (John 5:26, 1John 1:1-2) but according to Rom 6:9, he didn't obtain immortality till he rose from the dead.

Humans are a physical species of life.

†. Gen 2:7 . . And Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground

A physical species of life is incapable of relating to a spirit species of life.

†. 1Cor 214 . . A physical man does not receive the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot get to know them because they are examined spiritually.

The Father and the Son relate to each other so well because they are the same species of life.

In like manner: humans and their sons relate to each other so well because they are the same species of life.

Can people relate to clams on a personal level? No; they can't, because a clam's nature is foreign to human nature. In like manner: people cannot relate to God on a personal level either because divine nature is foreign to human nature.

God is spirit, and it is His wish that they who would worship Him do so spirit-to-spirit; viz: on a personal level (John 4:24). Well; as-is, humans are a physical species of life; and if they consist of any kind of a spirit component at all, it is entirely human rather than divine.

†. John 3:6 . .What has been born from the flesh is flesh

The eternal life that Christ is authorized to distribute as per John 17:2-3 provides humans with a spirit-to-spirit connection between themselves and the Father and the Son so that humans and the Father and the Son can relate to each other on a personal level instead of only always on a physical level; which in reality is merely an academic level.

Now I hasten to point out that the measure of eternal life that Christ is authorized to distribute does not now, nor shall it ever, transform humans into deities. That's not its purpose. But I will hasten to point out that the possession of eternal life isn't optional; no, it's a must.

†. John 4:24 . . God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit

Not only is eternal life a must; it's also available.

†. 2 Pet 1:3-4 . . His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, in order that by them you might become partakers of the divine nature,

†. John 4:10 . . If you had known the free gift of God, and who it is that says to you "Give me a drink" you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water

†. Rev 22:17 . . And the spirit and the bride keep on saying: “Come!” And let anyone hearing say: “Come!” And let anyone thirsting come; let anyone that wishes take life’s water free.

Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.

Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top